blather
that_broken_open_lowliness
re_alisma is the reality, not the language! -Rumi 100908
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? what is language?

1. the method of human communication, either spoken or written, consisting of the use of words in a structured and conventional way : a study of the way children learn language | [as adj. ] language development.
• any nonverbal method of expression or communication : a language of gesture and facial expression.
2. the system of communication used by a particular community or country : the book was translated into twenty-five languages.
• Computing a system of symbols and rules for writing programs or algorithms : a new programming language.
3. the manner or style of a piece of writing or speech : he explained the procedure in simple, everyday language.
• the phraseology and vocabulary of a certain profession, domain, or group of people : legal language.
• (usu. as bad/strong language) coarse, crude, or offensive language : strong language. 		100908
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fairy Language is not just spoken or written, it may also not be conscious.

Language is symbolic

The biggest problem with language is how it is read and how it is intended, you may think that someone is ignoring you by being quiet, you may think they are being 'aloof' with you, when in fact they are just in a quiet mood.

Reading and communicating language whether it be conscious or unconscious is a reality but it has to go through a mental process therefore the reality could be different depending on how the information is perceived.

don't get ya knickers in a twist. 		100908
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? reality |rēˈalətē|
noun ( pl. -ties)
1 the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them : he refuses to face reality | Laura was losing touch with reality.
• a thing that is actually experienced or seen, esp. when this is grim or problematic : the harsh realities of life in a farming community | the law ignores the reality of the situation.
• a thing that exists in fact, having previously only existed in one's mind : the paperless office may yet become a reality.
• the quality of being lifelike or resembling an original : the reality of Marryat's detail.
2 the state or quality of having existence or substance : youth, when death has no reality.
• Philosophy existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions. 		100908
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re_alisma the context that the quote came from is a religious one. search Rumi's Moses and the Shepherd, which is a longer one of his, and describes how one should center themselves in the emotion of longing and not get caught up in thought processes about it.

it's a very interesting theological argument, and so if you're not-so-religious it might not be for you. but then again, it might, too. 		100908
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? that's kind of funny you say that because did Rumi not long for someone himself?

who is Shams?

was Rumi not a human being? 		100908
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hello all this bollocks about trying to attain non attachment to things, maybe i don't fully understand that concept when i need attachment to certain things like my parents in order for my brian to grow in a way that enables me to be sociable with my environment which apparently i'm not allowed to be connected to or attached to.

Please can you explain what you understand yourself by the quote you have placed on this page. I am not interested in how someone else wants you to understand it. 		100908
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re_alisma well, i think when it gets right down to it, selfhood is not a let's-get-high and feel great concept, but a humility and that humility is rather antithetical to language. a good humility, i mean. correct perspective, maybe? which is why it falls into the realm of beliefs and not ideas.

it is a quote i happened to think of today, and not my own idea. Rumi was pretty much a saint.

and Shams was somebody Rumi loved, and Rumi described this love as symbolic of his love for God. 		100908
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hello thanks for your reply,
but i am a simple person therefore i need simple language to understand your reply.
could you explain a bit clearer? 		100908
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re_alisma no, i don't tend to be very clear. if you need to, you can look up antithetical in the dictionary, because, ha, communications are always a good thing to keep improving. part of what i do for a living is to encourage people to keep improving their language (and math, mostly it's math) skills.

rumi encourages us to get a sense of our longing for higher realities, and not to frame it in ideas and language. although he is quite masterful with ideas and language. but his mind is, in turn, not master of his outlook, but servant to his religious thinking. one of the concepts i've struggled with over the years with Rumi is his hierarchical views...

...but i do agree with him in the suggestion not to let the mind take on too much control. 		100908
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hello? can't you have a decent conversation with a simple person?

I don't understand why you want to maintain your intelligence when you can not even lower yourself to talk to me! 		100908
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hello? I unfortunately am not a book worm, sometimes i wish i was, i spend most of my time looking at things outside like the robin that just landed on my rock garden. I have read some Rumi before and I am impressed by the words but i don't think he would want you to kiss his feet because he can write well. Maybe he was a saint but if he was a wise man he would have to have a humility about him. 100908
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correction "would not" 100908
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correction stop it that is not what 100908
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re_alisma the truth is i do kiss his feet.
hello? reverence is not a bad thing. 		100908
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hello the problem with religion is it is stuck in one place, you read and believe something written a long time ago.

science can give you definite answers where as faith makes you a little bit of a fool. Why do you wear gold? is it because everyone else does? did your mummy and daddy tell you that it makes you important?

if you don't ask questions you end up being someones slave. 		100908
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hello i really really think he would prefer you to suck his cock! 100908
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hello he wants you to suck his cock and eat his shit. 100908
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hello oh i'm so sorry that is very low of me isn't it!
do forgive me if i don't respect you, it's just i don't think that much of people that have no sense. 		100908
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re_alisma that's okay, hello. i don't wear any gold.

the weird part is that i *am* a scientist (albeit a fuzzy-headed and actively confused one, so maybe should say "i used to be a scientist").

it's just that i'm very interested in religious questions as well, and they currently are more important to me than scientific questions. i don't much care that others might think i'm a fool for doing so. some day in the far-off future i will get back to science. actually, i'm reviewing it currently, just to see how i feel about it. but my current goals are to stabilize some kind of reverentially spiritual and/or religious and socially viable personality. or something. 		100908
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karl the weed ill admit it is a bit pedantic but some of what you said resonated with me re_alisma:

"rumi encourages us to get a sense of our longing for higher realities, and not to frame it in ideas and language, although he is quite masterful with ideas and language. but his mind is, in turn, not master of his outlook, but servant to his religious thinking. one of the concepts i've struggled with over the years with Rumi is his hierarchical views... "

that shit at the end about hierarchical views is bullshit cause theres no explanation... dont get me wrong i love to wax philosophic and talk in abstractions... but WHAT about his hierarchical views? what ARE his hierarchical views? far be it from me to say you can't just spout psychobabble (shit, i know i do that) but don't expect most people to play along. explore these ideas and explain them if you want people to get what you're talking about.

and... if his mind is servant to his religious thinking isn't he just doing what he said not to do? religion is just another construct, another concept, another idea attempting to articulate something unspeakable... so isn't holding these ideas in a religious context just doing that? framing it in ideas and language?

but thats not what i came to post.
i thought the first half of the above quote was very interesting... i have been thinking a lot about things like that... language is grossly insufficient to describe the human experience, and we feel a lot that cannot be put into words... and although the structure provided by ideas and language empower us to create and discover and build our own reality and take the lessons of the past and use them to discover more and more with each generation... we can only hope to approximate what we really mean with words.
so what i get from your interpretation, he is saying that we should embrace our emotions, and strive to improve ourselves and strive for a greater understanding of existence, but the true knowledge, the true sense of understanding lies within our emotions, and to fully understand life and existence we must feel our way to the truth... because language and ideas can never full articulate reality, they just help uncover a part of the PICTURE that is the universe... the light shed on the mysteries of humanity by science allows us to approximate what is and what is not... but we must find the WHOLE PICTURE in our minds, where we are unbound by the chains of language and ideas... and the key to that is embracing our emotion, in this case our longing for a higher reality... we cannot define this higher reality except for within our minds though we can never really fully define it... but we can TOUCH it, TOUCH the edge of it... and get a sense of the whole of existence

ok you caught me im a pedantic bore too and here i am babbling intellectual pseudo-philosophy...

but does any of that ring true for you re_alisma?

and does any of that make any more sense to you hello?

i was gonna go edit this mass of words before i posted but fuck it... thats what my mind crapped out onto the page 		100908
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hello at least this is some kind of a conversation..

re_alisma, you said: "but my current goals are to stabilize some kind of reverentially spiritual and/or religious and socially viable personality. or something."

are you saying to me that you aim to change or better your personality by being more spiritual and/or religious?

I can in a sense understand what you are saying, but to me education and good role models have done that for me, there was no need to be spiritual or religious. To me life itself is a big journey that is in itself a whole spiritual experience.

A lot of morals have come from religious text but that was then, my morals come from my parents and what i have understood from my experience of the world, i don't need any book to tell me how to live my life or how to look at life, it doesn't need to be so complicated i don't think. 		100908
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hello to: Karl the weed

i am a bit confused, what are higher realities?
are higher realities making an understanding of existence?


when a baby goes to catch a bubble it pops when they try to grab it. where did it go?
the baby is totally baffled.


Some people don't believe in evolution because they say they can't see it. Maybe having a greater understanding of existence is to understand the nature of change, although that bubble is no longer a bubble, the mixture that formed the bubble has not disappeared, it has become a droplet on the ground, most of that droplet will evaporate and the rest of it may bond with another substance.


chemicals do communicate to each other, they communicate in a different way to us, but they do communicate.


the yin and the yang are opposites but they balance each other out, the power of attraction, the pull, is the positive force in the universe, it must be the push that is the negative force. 		100908
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hello maybe you could say that bubble doesn't have a 'soul' but it is a mixture of chemicals which is what has made humans into humans.

maybe the time it has taken humans to become humans makes them much more complex and accurately designed to have an ability to be conscious of what they are and have the ability to interact with their environment through the development of their senses.


if we can talk about 'reality', then what part of it isn't real? Animals don't sit around talking about these things, they don't know what they are any more than we know what we are but it doesn't mean to say they are not real.

maybe it is the way in which some people perceive things that isn't real, like praying to god for example, what difference does it make? What will be will be whether you pray or not. 		100908
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karl the weed yeah... it doesn't need to be complicated... perhaps you are just lucky enough to not be burdened with the need to FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT, and you are content with taking life and existence at face value and playing within the boundaries that society/the world/we ourselves have put up...

but the way i see it its not that you NEED some book to tell you something... its more like... once you think hard enough about life you start to come to the edge of our understanding and eventually those with the drive to do it try and grasp that which we can't comprehend... and if we can't comprehend the WHOLE of existence then we can't even say for sure how much we DO or DON'T know. So really... we are likely INFINITELY insignificant and INFINITELY ignorant but we cant ever say for sure. And when you start to enter the realm of the infinite and that which we cannot perceive, all bets are off.
i personally have a distaste for religion and i think that people should be able to decide what they want and treat people the right way without some bullshit justification for it. but when you get past the superficial parts, the organized religions and the people telling you what to think, religion is just a manifestation of spirituality and spirituality is just people trying to figure out what they cannot understand. and so, many of those books are just manipulative bullshit, but i imagine many of them (perhaps the book in question here) are people trying to articulate what we cannot quantify and share it with the rest of the world.

so yes it can be simple... if you want to set boundaries and make your life a simple place then so be it, but for me personally... once i start to think about one thing it leads to thinking about the circumstances of that thing, and it keeeeeps going until i arrive at the impossible questions that we cannot answer.
so i dont need a book to tell me how to live my life or how to look at life, but a book is just another tool with which to gain perspective. its just what YOU get out of it thats important... a book of lies can teach me something, i don't have to believe its lies. I choose what i believe. and something with the label 'religious' or 'spiritual' doesn't have to be about "god" or some shit... though a lot of people come to that conclusion, whats important is the IDEA they are trying to articulate... because in any religion, "god" is intangible... so if you are careful to filter out the false information and that which does not resonate with you, you can still learn the lessons contained within. or touch that which the church decided was called "god" with your mind, and draw your own conclusions on what it is.

to clarify: i am not religious im an atheist if anything and i pretty much hate organized religion. but it just occurred to me that all of humanity has been striving for millennia to describe something... and the message has been perverted... but that which we cant comprehend could be ANYTHING... so whos to say that the answer to my questions of existence and what some religions named "god" and others "allah" are not one and the same? the answer to the meaning of existence is as intangible as the concept of "god" so why cant they be the same thing?

This is sooo contrary to my normal attitudes on religion... i just sorta thought of these ideas just now and it makes just as much sense as anything else 		100908
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karl the weed hm... interesting... you posted twice while i was typing that wall of text... i will be back later to discuss because i must go right now but i will say this, about the praying thing:

the idea that im thinkin of is, how can you KNOW that praying doesnt do anything? i dont personally think it does, but scientifically with quantum physics they have proven there are things that exist that our outside of our perception. so how can you really say how much of reality is within our perception? maybe we just cant see that shade of purple even though its there... or maybe we exist and perceive within a very limited spectrum of reality, and there are infinitely more colors than we can imagine for instance... like how can you describe a color to a blind person? how can you describe the 'color' of ultraviolet light to someone if no one can see it? there are properties to things that we cant just perceive with our senses... and because of that we can't know for sure how much stuff is out there that we cant see or feel! so words and language are not enough to describe the universe as a whole...

i am interested in this discussion though i shall be back! 		100908
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hello hi Karl the weed,

i am NOT content with playing within the boundaries that society/the world/we ourselves have put up...

this is because i have seen the world, and i don't think many people like the contrasts between rich and poor, i think we humans are capable of changing that seeing as we have created this situation.

To me that is more important than finding out an answer to a big question that may not make any difference to us if we were to find out. If we can't even find a peace in such a tiny island in this universe then we shouldn't be so adamant to find out answers to things that don't even have a question.

what you will end up doing is having a huge debate, you will start in one place, and end in the same place, yes it is all very interesting but i think it is even more interesting that you have gone through a huge amount of information and ended up in the same place!

maybe you believe in a beginning and an end where as I don't. 		100908
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hello words aren't enough!
what about orgasms then!?? 		100908
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re_alisma a few things: karl the hierarchical thinking is that the religious mindset will eventually one to a higher reality, in heaven, I think is what he means. and of course that's a big problem for some people, including me. i have had to ask, does the earth-life suck so much? what hello says about life itself being a whole big spiritual experience is quite valid... but i get the feeling Rumi would think there's something with a little higher quality available, eventually, when we have enough longing for it. also, life tends to encourage you to seek this higher reality. as time goes on, i'm starting to think that this "higher reality" is what we produce out of our hopes, dreams, and, yes, spiritual senses. why wouldn't it be real, too?

i can't truly decide between heaven and earth, but i have to think about it, for some reason. that's just the way i am: dissociated and a little bit traumatized by life's unwillingness to be straightforward and predictable. i don't read the bible. i don't go to church, and really rarely have i ever. i don't look to books for answers but for discussions.

hello: i don't assume that i, my family, my ancestors, my educators have provided me with every concept i need. i look to greater thinkers for most inspiration. but that's not to say that i, my family, my ancestors, or my educators have had important input, as well.

spirituality is not a construct to Rumi, he describes how he responds to the mystery ad nauseum. he does analyze and find religion to be a construct (see Moses and the Shepherd, which deals with the question of dogmatic ideas and constructs directly).

karl, what you said about emotions made sense. what emotions we are talking about may be something worth exploring. for example, are the emotions of a 2 year old a source of spiritual inspiration to him (or her)? hard to tell, we tend to think otherwise.

hello, by invoking yin and yang you are referencing Taoism, right? that's another religion, which has some similarities and differences with Rumi's Islam. personally, i can't choose one or the other, but i would suggest that they would argue with each other a bit. so we as solitary human beings must be making a choice about religion if we are to be invoking their ideas as ultimate rules and conceptual frameworks (dogma).

good point about the animals. i definitely find animals to be a big ? in pedantic, philosophical matters. and plants, for that matter.

get a load of this, my post got responded to! :) 		100908
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hello yes, life on earth does suck, quite a lot.
for some people life is shit, and it is even worse for them if they don't believe in a "higher reality", which you have clarified as heaven.

life is definitely what you make it however there seem to be a lot of people to want to go out of there way to make your life hell.Why do we need to even speak about a spiritual after life if the basics are not even there.

it takes very few few to make life on earth a living hell for a large amount of people and I am one of them.

i am fed up with people that cover up the truth and go to church or whatever building to try to burry their sorrow, it doesn't fucking work, the only thing that does seem to work is self hypnotism and who isn't to say that that isn't a metal disorder of some kind.

face the truth, we live in HELL. 		100909
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karl the weed yeah... i feel your pain...

i guess the way i see it is... im totally ready to help my fellow human
i am a sympathetic person and i always try to do the right thing, with the idea of if EVERYONE did it humanity could pull itself out of the muddy shithole its in....

so yeah just waiting for the rest of humanity on that one... and in the meantime i will write masturbatory wall of text ramble posts about the nature of existance! 		100909
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hello
when i feel hot tears rolling down my face, it's my heart bleeding,

i can't trust anyone anymore and that for me is very sad because i don't know that,

in the past i have trusted almost everyone but now its like
- how can i ?

i would never have imagined myself crying for this reason but i am,

it's lonely being your only friend.

i don't think it is me feeling sorry for myself, it is just a bitter disappointment because everything i new before now was different,

i loved people for who they are, but now i don't trust who they are, why in hell i need to experience this i don't know.

this isn't an existence i ever wanted to contain, i always used to use bad experiences to my advantage but now i have been offered a present, it's the worst gift anyone could ever give me. 		100909
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hello that woman isn't my mother,
where is my mother? 		100909
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karl the weed :(

im sorry that youre hurting

im at a pretty painful point in my life right now too

honestly all of what you just said resonates with me probably more than i can express here with words

i dont have friends anymore

i trust people too easily

i have always been the best friend i can possibly be to who i thought were my friends... and now years later none of them are there for me... but it took me until now to realize that maybe they never were my friends

and that hurts

it hurts that there is no one here to help pull me out of this dark hole, especially when i would be there in an instant for any one of my so-called "friends"

cause what the fuck do we have if we don't have each other

i feel like the last year or two in my life has been me realizing that everything i used to think is wrong

and that every negative thing people always told me about life turned out to be true

and worst of all... that no one is going to help me but ME

and that doesnt mean that there aren't good things about life to be found

but the crushing realization of the reality of the world leaves me with the terrible taste of disappointment in my mouth

and its crippling


i always used to be a pessimist, always negativity... i used to HATE it when people told me things like "make the best of what you have" or "a positive attitude helps"

but recently ive started to realize a lot of those pieces of advice are true (or at least that i can learn something from them)

so ive been trying to be positive and use bad experiences to my advantage

but its fucking hard

so ive been trying to find some catharsis in my own thoughts, through contemplation of the universe as a whole and artistic expression

and ive decided like my journey in life is to find beauty and higher meaning... for ME on MY terms and not ANYONE elses

so i find some comfort in meta thinking and searching for a higher meaning... but i know that the higher meaning is in ME

so im just trying to learn to know myself better i guess

and im sorry for muddying up this thread with all of that pseudo-intellectual nonsense... its just my way of trying to cope

it pains me to do it alone though, because as much as part of me hates humanity, all i want and need is other humans to be there to help and support me... because i need it maybe.. but also because i need to help other people... and it seems like no one else has that need


i hope you can figure out what you need in your life, and how to change so you can heal your wounds and move on to get what you want out of your life

cause as much as i want terribly badly to reject every part of this retarded world we have been thrust into... we are too small and insignificant to make any changes alone... so we must decide what we want out of life and go get it... cause everyone else isnt gonna hesitate to fuck you over and serve themselves first. so the best we can do is be that change we want to see, and wait for the rest of humanity to follow suit

and i think thats not really right, and that people should work together for a greater good... but we must choose between being miserable and altruistic or being selfish and maybe less miserable... there is a compromise somewhere in there and we all must decide how much of ourselves we want to give away, and how much we want to keep for ourselves

or something

please feel better :]

use knowledge to empower yourself

be opportunistic and use your choices to change what you can change, and maybe you can make things better 		100909
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Doar Karl,
I've never forgot you.

Take that as you might and will. 		100909
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Doar and all you secrets shall be exposed, but they will be mine. I have viewed your thoughts and I will be there to mask the thoughts you are now citing at me.

I was born a man who doesn't look back. but I do believe in the poetry of the soul, so do not take this dream I have of you. But you always take from me, and although your dark voice tells me to accept what you are imparting to us.

You have the power, but do not tell me that you have my life in your hands, because my life is a lid.

And the lid still remains to be lifted... 		100910
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In_Bloom It makes me a beggar for your love.
Even though you say you love me,
So much.

I stand and look into your face, wanting you to make me beautiful in your eyes. I accept your giggles, hugs and kisses on top of my head. I'm almost a pet but I want to be a woman.
Again.

Myself, it angers me to feel I'm selling short and gambling for you to come through. Hedging my bets against your destruction by trying to lift you beyond my disappointment and hurting.

I don't want to be the beggar, I don't want to be your pet. Show me you want me to be the woman standing before you in a silk gown with a beaming smile and flushed cheeks.

Lowliness isn't becoming, it's strangling. 		100911
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hello hi Karl,

yes, i wonder why it is easier to be negative than be positive? I am only negative from how i feel, if i feel sad i am negative, if i feel happy i am positive. I do know what I want from life and that is to be happy, maybe that is very shallow but i don't see a reason for existence if you are not, its just a matter of getting to that happiness, knowing how to get there and trying to create a lifestyle that produces it. If I want to be happy it means that other people have to be happy because like it or not we all have to live with each other and living with a sad person isn't going to make me or you happy is it.

I believe that negativity or positivity is catching, we all want to be around fun loving, considerate, caring people opposed to boring, selfish and nasty people.

the point that i am making is that i can only be happy if my environment is happy which means that i can only make my own happiness to a certain extent. 		100911
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unhinged (to many of us, it is conditioning and ego that make it easier to be negative. i sat in church today (working) and my heart and stomach clenched when the worship leader said 'i know that i am fundamentally wrong; i come before god for forgiveness'


my heart clenched.


even religion thousands of years in the making, religion that made and informed our society, tells us that we are wrong, bad.

no wonder it's so hard for most of us to choose the other side of the coin and be happy) 		100911
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h|s|g it_has_been_found that this
reality_is_made_of_language 		100912
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hello someone once said to me: "everything is an illusion"

i was left to understand that in my own way...

my understanding was: that the reality of being alive and being aware of it, is so insanely amazing (even if you do have the positive and negative emotions) that the reality of it is an illusion.

People don't celebrate enough the pros and cons of being alive. If you loose a loved one and you love and hurt from it everyday, you only hurt because of the love. I don't see why love should turn out to be pain, it makes little sense. You can hold love in your memory and heart forever, it doesn't go anywhere, you could never possess it physically anyway. 		100913
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hello Unhinged, yes you are right, it is very easy to follow religion, to have blind faith. It is much more difficult to ask questions.

Belonging to something makes a person feel contentment but to me that kind of belonging is really fake, it just turns you into a fool.

The only good thing about being a fool is that you can learn from it, it is important that you respect yourself and don't remain a fool forever. 		100913
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unhinged (my father always told me growing up 'it's ok to make mistakes as long as you learn from them and don't make the same mistake twice'

love_is_pain
the_four_seals :

'all compounded phenomena are impermanent'

and in our constant state of grasping
when things change
the change brings us pain

rather than
being able to appreciate the beauty in our lives
for what it really is) 		100913
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hello what you are right now is a product of the past,
if that is the case why should you not be a part of the future?

it is a mans natural drive to want this, the laws of attraction make this happen.

"you" or "i" (meaning us)

time is a concept and if we compare our lives to the time it has taken to get here it really is insignificant to one life time.

being able to grasp this maybe quite important to how you view things 		100913
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hello i don't know what four seals is?
will check it out 		100913
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hello According to the Buddha, all conditioned things have "three characteristics" (Pali: tilakkhaṇa; Sanskrit: trilakṣaṇa), namely, impermanence (anicca,無常), suffering or unsatisfactoriness (dukkhā,苦) and not-self (anattā,空), and that a full understanding of them brings suffering to an end (dukkha nirodha,苦滅). He taught that all things conditioned by causes (saṅkhāra) are impermanent (anicca) and suffering (dukkhā) while he said not-self (anattā) characterises all dhammas meaning there is no "I" or "mine" in the conditioned as well as the unconditioned (i.e. Nibbāna).[1]
According to tradition, after much meditation, Siddhartha achieved Nirvana and awakening thus becoming the Buddha Shakyamuni. With the faculty of wisdom the Buddha directly perceived that everything in the physical world (and everything in the phenomenology of psychology) is marked by these three characteristics:
Anicca (Sanskrit anitya) "inconstancy" or "impermanence". This refers to the fact that all conditioned things (sankhara) are in a constant state of flux. In reality there is no thing that ultimately ceases to exist; only the appearance of a thing ceases as it changes from one form to another. Imagine a leaf that falls to the ground and decomposes. While the appearance and relative existence of the leaf ceases, the components that formed the leaf become particulate material that may go on to form new plants. Buddhism teaches a middle way, avoiding the extreme views of eternalism and nihilism.[2]
Dukkha (Sanskrit duhkha) or dissatisfaction (or "dis-ease"; also often translated "suffering", though this is somewhat misleading). Nothing found in the physical world or even the psychological realm can bring lasting deep satisfaction.
Anatta (Sanskrit anatman) or "non-Self" is used in the suttas both as a noun and as a predicative adjective to denote that phenomena are not, or are without, a permanent self, to describe any and all composite, consubstantial, phenomenal and temporal things, from the macrocosmic to microcosmic, be it matter pertaining to the physical body or the cosmos at large, as well as any and all mental machinations, which are impermanent.
There is often a fourth Dharma Seal mentioned:
Nirvana is peace. Nirvana is the "other shore" from samsara.
Together the three characteristics of existence are called ti-lakkhana in Pali or tri-laksana in Sanskrit.
By bringing the three (or four) seals into moment-to-moment experience through concentrated awareness, we are said to achieve wisdom – the third of the three higher trainings – the way out of samsara. Thus the method for leaving samsara involves a deep-rooted change in world view. 		100913
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hello Whatever is impermanent is subject to change. Whatever is subject to change is subject to suffering.
—The Buddha


the above quote I do not understand yet, what happens if you move with the change? What is "whatever"? everything is impermanent, I can't think of anything that is not even diamonds get brighter and more condensed through time. What I don't understand her is if everything is subject to change and therefore subject to suffering the result is surely a negative one not a balanced one?


suffer |ˈsəfər|
verb [ trans. ]
1 experience or be subjected to (something bad or unpleasant) : he'd suffered intense pain | [ intrans. ] he'd suffered a great deal since his arrest | [as n. ] ( suffering) weapons that cause unnecessary


• [ intrans. ] ( suffer from) be affected by or subject to (an illness or ailment) : his daughter suffered from agoraphobia.
• [ intrans. ] become or appear worse in quality : his relationship with Anne did suffer.
• [ intrans. ] archaic undergo martyrdom or execution.
2 dated tolerate : France will no longer suffer the existing government.
• allow (someone) to do something : my conscience would not suffer me to accept any more.


To understand this I must understand what change is and what it results in, does change change in itself? 		100913
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hello According to Buddhism, at this point he realized complete awakening and insight into the nature and cause of human suffering, which was ignorance, along with steps necessary to eliminate it. This was then categorized into 'Four Noble Truths'; the state of supreme liberation—possible for any being—was called Nirvana. The Buddha described Nirvāna as the perfect peace of the state of mind that is free from craving, anger and other afflicting states (kilesas). It is also the "end of the world"; there is no identity left, and no boundaries for the mind.He then came to possess the Ten Characteristics, which are said to belong to every Buddha. 100913
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hello The Buddha described Nirvāna as the perfect peace of the state of mind that is free from craving, anger and other afflicting states (kilesas).

Do you think it is possible to be free from suffering if you see others suffering? I don't think Nirvana is attainable for one individual only, not unless you lock yourself away from all the grief and suffering in the world and that isn't living in reality is it.

Working on and improving yourself is one thing but being able to live in an environment that does not accommodate peace of mind is a huge hurdle to achieving a different existence. We are all a product of our environment and not to any understanding of connection between it and us is totally foolish.

I don not believe Nirvana is reachable if nobody understands that and Nirvana isn't a place you go to on your own.

I have never had a problem with solitude however it takes two to tango! heehee 		100913
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correction We are all a product of our environment and not to *have* any understanding or connection between it and us is totally foolish. 100913
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hello Does Bodhi come before Nirvana? 100913
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hello Karma,

Karma (Sanskrit: कर्म kárma (help·info), kárman—"act, action, performance"[1]; Pali: kamma) in Indian religions is the concept of "action" or "deed", understood as that which causes the entire cycle of cause and effect (i.e., the cycle called saṃsāra) originating in ancient India and treated in Hindu, Jain, Buddhist and Sikh philosophies.[2]
'Karma' is an Indian religious concept in contradistinction to 'faith' espoused by Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), which view all human dramas as the will of God as opposed to present—and past—life actions. In theistic schools of Hinduism, humans have free will to choose good or evil and suffer the consequences, which require the will of God to implement karma's consequences, unlike Buddhism or Jainism which do not accord any role to a supreme God or gods. In Indian beliefs, the karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as actively shaping past, present, and future experiences. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala.[3] 		100913
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hello when someone says they are a Buddhist, what does it mean? 100913
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hello There is something I don't understand about that, every time i have consciously tried to better myself it has never worked i don't think.

to cultivate compassion

cultivate:
cultivate |ˈkəltəˌvāt|
verb [ trans. ]
1 prepare and use (land) for crops or gardening.
• break up (soil) in preparation for sowing or planting.
• raise or grow (plants), esp. on a large scale for commercial purposes.
• Biology grow or maintain (living cells or tissue) in culture.
2 try to acquire or develop (a quality, sentiment, or skill) : he cultivated an air of indifference.
• try to win the friendship or favor of (someone) : it helps if you go out of your way to cultivate the local people.
• [usu. as adj. ] ( cultivated) apply oneself to improving or developing (one's mind or manners) : he was a remarkably cultivated and educated man.

to cultivate compassion?
i always thought that compassion came from the heart? then how can you put it there if it isn't there?

We should not inflict pain upon ourselves therefore why should we inflict compassion upon ourselves?
i am stuck
if you call yourself a Buddhist i just want to understand what that means, how can someone try to become a better person, they either are a better person or they are not, you can't try for that can you? If being a Buddhist is seeing yourself as you are, then i can understand what it is, the environment made you and that is what will make you a better person? will it not? 		100913
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unhinged if someone says they are buddhist, they believe in the_four_seals . if they don't believe in the_four_seals they aren't buddhist.

shakyamuni (sp) buddha stayed on this planet for decades teaching his path precisely because he knew the path to liberation, saw all the suffering in the world, and wanted to help all the other poor shmucks that were suffering too. check out the word/term/person 'bodhisattva' in the buddhist tradition.

when i think of what the word 'cultivate' means, the thought of helping something grow comes to mind.


change causes most people intense pain. if you don't mind it, you are wiser than most. 		100913
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re_alisma i can only speak to why i don't call myself a Buddhist. it's because i'm not perfect... nor do i think i should become a practitioner devoted to the cause of being perfect.

but i do have an affinity for Buddhism, because some of its methods for coping with life's inconsistencies are very helpful to me and sometimes i really take to them. i use Buddhism. i know that sounds a little off, and might be truly immoral sometimes, but that's kind of what i do. so it's the Four Noble Truths perspective and the Eightfold Path method of prioritizing things. yes, i think we can function "better" through the ideas put forth by Buddhism in the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. i'd like to dig into it further and i actually plan to once i clear my mind about my other tasks in life.

but make no mistake about it, my self-esteem situation won't let me "be" a practitioner of anything other than that one really popular Western white-guy religion. but that doesn't mean that i don't put on other robes sometimes, kind of faking it with other religions. i think i do that in life after life and in the afterlife, and all around life, just to be perfectly grotesque and experimental about religion in general. because i'm very, very morbidly curious. and look, guess what, that's a little bit Buddhist of me, too, that curiosity. how can we improve the actual reality-based situation is very Buddhist. is the curiosity a good thing? i don't know. is it bad? is the alternative isolationism, then? should we even bring an -ism into the practice of any religion? could -isms be mis-translations into English? and wouldn't that be a shame to our understanding.

being better by treating people better is definitely not a waste of anybody's energies. but nobody is perfect nor should they strive to be, i agree. you are what you are. it is what it is.

although we don't tend to condone anything and everything. we shouldn't exploit each other, the environment, other creatures sharing our space, etc. and nobody gets super-duper-A+'s in that arena. so we're not perfect. oh, my, i'm spinning, i think. whoa! must. stop. now. 		100913
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perfectly_chaotic re_alisma I respect your curiosity. Your curiosity tells me that you are alive and human. Further, your thoughts are more buddhist than you may even realize. Your suggestion that one should not try to be perfect is very buddhist.

Being buddhist is certainly not about being devoted to being perfect. In trying acheive a perfect state of being a person could cause themself a great deal of suffering. One definition of the word perfect, while there are many, is "thorough, complete, utter". A person who does not accept there own flaws is not accepting their inherent perfection. You will learn to suffer much less when you can learn to work with your flaws and accept that it is perfectly okay to be flawed. I'm not suggesting that people should give up on the thought of self-improvement, but I am suggesting that they should not turn their attempts to improve themselves into a struggle. If someone creates the idea that they should be something which they are not then are they not also creating an unsatisfied desire to be something different than what they are? Will this dissatisfaction not also cause them suffering? If someone were not flawed how could they possibly understand the flaws of others or ever expect to work with them?

There are three vehicles, or paths, which in the buddhist traditions are said to take people "to the other shore" which is nirvana. The theravadin path is the path to enlightenment which shakyamuni buddha himself taught of. The mahayana path or boddhisatva path is based of of the teachings of the theravadin path and on this path the practitioner puts the enlightenment of others before their own enlightenment with the idea that in order for one to truly obtain liberation from samsara all others must also become liberated(Watching others suffer can cause great suffering). The vajrayana path is known as the quickest path to liberation, or parinirvana, in which one is able to achieve this within one lifetime. The venerable Sangye Khadro who studied the Tibetan buddhist tradition under Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Lama Thubten Yeshe, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Geshe Ngawang Dhargyey and Geshe Jampa Tegchog. According to Khadro, the "Vajrayana is like flying a jet. It's faster than driving a car, but you must spend extra time learning the jet before you can start to fly. Otherwise, you either never get there or crash to the ground".

Do not let your other life tasks keep you from digging further into what already seems to be ringing true to your heart. 		100913
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unhinged but you already are perfect dear; underneath your ego, the light in the center of your heart and mind is already perfect.


in the buddhist cosmology, human sentience isn't the highest sentience. precisely because, even though we can see our suffering, many of us can't hop off the wheel.

entropy_paste



us humans cover ourselves with dirt everyday. we cut_and_run or twist reality into the perception that suits us best at the time. we are masters of illusion. we dwell in the what_if back_then maybe_later s.



today i had sunshine, atmosphere in my headphones, and monarch butterflies and swarms of dragonflies in the parking lot all before i stepped foot in work. and then for the first time in i can't remember, a majority (!) of my students had good lessons.

on_contentment


contentment is: while parts of me are breaking i can still let my mouth turn up at the corners. 		100913
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unhinged ( it_is_what_it_is is a bad excuse

it_is_what_you_make_it ) 		100914
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re_alisma i find, and i have spent some years investigating this, that i fall on the Christo-Islamic side of the longing vs contentment equation. (i don't include Jewish because i had a lot of experiences for a little while with Jewish people and didn't find the resonance i find with the other abrahamic religions) my goal is honestly correct suffering (and not nirvana-enlightenment) and I use Buddhism to get myself out of it from time to time. it's not my heart that's interested in Buddhism. it's my head. my curiosity IS quite morbid, because i know not everybody is put together this way and i wonder if my beliefs (for example, i've got some karma to straighten out in a very real sense before i can get to more together and stable existence (which is where i need to be, someday )) can be tinkered with. i am kind of ruthless about it, and i'm not necessarily PRO other mindsets in my heart, because my heart does feel like it knows the plan (as not so (currently) happiness-producing as it might be. happiness is not my first priority but might be my third or fourth, so it can cause some conflicts)

i used to have a bit more of a savior complex but i analyzed that one to pieces. i had to. i wasn't well. but i've done the same thing with a persecution complex because i wasn't well. i'm still pretty convinced, though, that i'm on a karmic adjustment train (for the sake of further lifetimes and relationships within those lifetimes, i must get my act a little better together), and it's really not about "getting to the other shore" ((or, insert whatever transportation metaphors make sense here)) but i could be wrong and deceiving myself about that....

i appreciate your response, perfectly chaotic, we just might have different values and contexts in mind, is all. my heart is definitely not in charge but i like to think that i try to make it a good one. i try to direct my actions so they are basically heart-aligned. i do feel a tad prickly to your argument, so sorry if this is not the response you would have preferred. i would refer you and any reader again to this Moses and the Shepherd poem... it's really quite good at describing different approaches to spirituality....

if you know astrology, i'm looking at a 6th house path, not-as-much 12th. getting my act together, but not necessarily very good at getting my act together, in a grounded, day-to-day sense.

unhinged, i came to the conclusion that it_is_what_it_is when i saw a couple people die of cancer. (as i am doing now with my grandfather) when you've got terminal cancer and you're sick and tired of it, there's no more goals and there's no more improvements or tweaking the situation with the right attitude. you either get some grace and is_what_it_is - it, or you blank out, big time. i believe it's mindfulness. it is what it is. but i know other people might use the saying in a different context. 		100914
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info Anicca (Sanskrit anitya) "inconstancy" or "impermanence". This refers to the fact that all conditioned things (sankhara) are in a constant state of flux. In reality there is no thing that ultimately ceases to exist; only the appearance of a thing ceases as it changes from one form to another. Imagine a leaf that falls to the ground and decomposes. While the appearance and relative existence of the leaf ceases, the components that formed the leaf become particulate material that may go on to form new plants. Buddhism teaches a middle way, avoiding the extreme views of eternalism and nihilism.[2]
Dukkha (Sanskrit duhkha) or dissatisfaction (or "dis-ease"; also often translated "suffering", though this is somewhat misleading). Nothing found in the physical world or even the psychological realm can bring lasting deep satisfaction.
Anatta (Sanskrit anatman) or "non-Self" is used in the suttas both as a noun and as a predicative adjective to denote that phenomena are not, or are without, a permanent self, to describe any and all composite, consubstantial, phenomenal and temporal things, from the macrocosmic to microcosmic, be it matter pertaining to the physical body or the cosmos at large, as well as any and all mental machinations, which are impermanent. 		100914
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hello to: unhinged

you said that if someone says they are buddhist, they believe in the above plus the fourth - Nirvana, if they don't believe in the four seals they aren't buddhist.

I want to know what there isn't to believe?

I don't think it is right to say that you are something just because you believe in it.

Don't you need to understand it and live it? 		100914
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hello i often see people struggling because they try too hard, i've done it myself, eventually you realise, that you are probably doing yourself more harm than good.
If you are able to identify stress, it is a result of struggling against something that just isn't going to give in, that is when you have to just let it do what it wants to do, a lot of things we can't control. 		100914
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hello Nibbāna (Sanskrit: Nirvāna): It is possible for sentient beings to realize a dimension of awareness which is totally unconstructed and peaceful, and end all suffering due to the mind's interaction with the conditioned world.

Siddhattha Gotama
obviously he understood what Nibbana is/was but he himself had to leave because of all the fighting going on around him, he became old and past away.
His teachings were never intrusive or demanding however they didn't have a big enough platform to teach from, maybe in the end he struggled with this? 		100914
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hello Nibbāna (Sanskrit: Nirvāna): It is possible for sentient beings to realize a dimension of awareness which is totally unconstructed and peaceful, and end all suffering due to the mind's interaction with the conditioned world.

Siddhattha Gotama
obviously he understood what Nibbana is/was but he himself had to leave because of all the fighting going on around him, he became old and past away.
His teachings were never intrusive or demanding however they didn't have a big enough platform to teach from, maybe in the end he struggled with this? 		100914
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unhinged action comes from belief. you have to believe something before you can act on it.


siddartha said not to believe anything he said just because he said it, but to go out into the world and prove for yourself that it's true. buddhism, as far as i know, is the only experential religion. no blind faith involved.

there are many parts of buddhism that can be helpful to anyone that wants to practice them, but just because you meditate or believe in cause and effect, that doesn't make you buddhist. if you think there is a greater power in the universe that guides and created us and takes us somewhere good or bad after death, you are not a buddhist.

what makes you not a buddhist --- dzongsar jamyang khyentse 		100914
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hello Buddhism is a religion and philosophy encompassing a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices, largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, commonly known as the Buddha (Pāli/Sanskrit "the awakened one"). He is recognized by adherents as an awakened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings end suffering (or dukkha), achieve nirvana, and escape what is seen as a cycle of suffering and rebirth. 100914
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hello to be honest i am a bit confused what makes you a buddhist and what doesn't, i am trying to find out.

when someone told me that they are a buddhist, i didn't understand what they meant. 		100914
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hello what is the Khuddaka-Patha? 100914
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hello What Does Taking Refuge Mean
The phrase ‘taking refuge’ means "seeking shelter." In Buddhism, taking the three refuges or Ti Samana Gamana means seeking shelter from the negativity, the evils, the obstacles and the cycles of life and death.

I don't understand this, 		100914
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hello i want to go and sit in a peaceful place with peaceful friendly people but i'm not sure if i will ever be able to. A protected life is lovely until you read news of the world. 100914
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hello I have been on meditation retreats before and it's perfect while it lasts, however when you step back into reality, it's really hard to keep in a peaceful environment with like minded people. People try and pull and push you in hundred of different ways and by the end of it they seem to drain all the colour out of you. 100914
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hello can you inform me? 100915
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perfectly_chaotic To consider yourself a buddhist simply means that you believe in the ideas presented by the four seals. The four seals are:

1. All compounded things are impermanent.
2. All emotions are painful.
3. All phenomena are empty; they are without inherent existence.
4. Nirvana is beyond extremes.


The Khuddakapatha is part of the Vinaya Pitaka. Which is part of the Pali Canon. The Pali canon, also known as the tripitaka, is one of the three main bodys of buddhist teachings which includes: the Vinaya Pitaka, which mainly deals with the rules for monks; the Sutra Pitaka which contains the famous Dhammapada and the Jakarta tales which deal with the previous lives of Buddha Shakyamuni; and the Abhidharma Pitaka which deals with the more philosophical aspects of buddhism. While you could take the time to read all of these, it would take a great deal of it, if your curiosity is genuine perhaps you ought to consider finding a buddhist teacher. To try to take it all in at once and understand it immediately would most likely be impossible.

The triple refuge vow is just simply taking refuge in the Buddha, dharma and the sangha. If one wishes to formally become a buddhist this is the vow that they would take. I have not personally taken this vow as of yet. However, I have heard a buddhist I know say that he takes refuge in the buddha because he is a good role model, the dharma because it is the truth(it literally mean "truth"), and the sangha because they are good people. However, it can mean different things to different people.

Are you familiar with the three klesas? They are ignorance, attachment and craving. Is desiring people to stop pushing and pulling others in different directions not a type of craving? We can certainly all agree that all people want to end suffering for ourselves and others. Does that mean that people will also agree on the best way to do so? Look at politics for instance, some people think that we would suffer less if we were in a communist government and others think that we suffer less within a democracy. If you ask twenty different people about the best way to become happy and at peace is, will you not be likely to get twenty different answers? How attached do you think these people will be to their answers?

The buddha once said in the Anguttara Nikaya(part of the Sutra Pitaka):

"Monks, I know not of any other single thing so intractable as the untamed mind. The untamed mind is indeed a thing untractable.

"Monks, I know not of any other thing so tractable as the tamed mind. The tamed mind is indeed a thing tractable.

"Monks, I know not of any other single thing so conducive to great loss as the untamed mind. The untamed mind indeed conduces to great loss.

"Monks, I know not of any other single thing so conducive to great profit as the tamed mind. The tamed mind indeed conduces to great profit.

"Monks, I know not of any other single thing that brings such woe as the mind that is untamed, uncontrolled, unguarded and unrestrained. Such a mind indeed brings great woe.

"Monks, I know not of any other single thing that brings such bliss as the mind that is tamed, controlled, guarded and restrained. Such a mind indeed brings great bliss." 		100915
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unhinged i went to a funeral today; of someone i didnt know.


it was a buddhist funeral. there were people sniffling; there were people leaving when buddhist parts of the ceremony came up.

impermanence



i realized today i wished someone would have good things to say about me when i die. today; today i realized everything i say and do might be a story at my funeral.

(even though i didn't know him, i let my heart be opened by him. the power of sitting in a room full of people letting their hearts be open.

i'm open)

tonglen 		100915
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hello to: perfectly chaotic

you said: "Look at politics for instance, some people think that we would suffer less if we were in a communist government and others think that we suffer less within a democracy."

can you please explain the difference between the two. what does democracy mean? does it matter who you vote for when the system that is chosen has command? I think if you look at it in a different way you might begin to realise that capitalism, hate it as i do, has produced a baby it didn't want. The banks control the government and the government is controlled by the BIG Businesses. Our BIG BROTHER is the value of capitalism. Communism is at present not fully developed yet the reason for this is that each country has it's own values which is compared to other peoples values which maybe different. It seems like a complicated thing to understand when we have something called money which seems to have found it's own way in the end.

If you are a buddhist and you are not involved with politics, i think you might want to start to think about GETTING REAL. 		100916
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hello REALITY is not a made up concept, you can not borrow time. You are sick and manipulative if you think you can buy it for your benefit and someone else's misfortune. The only animal that uses money is human beings, plants don't fucking need it do they.

expression is expression and if you don't like the way i paint then don't buy it. 		100916
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hello to: perfectly chaotic,

you said
" I have heard a buddhist I know say that he takes refuge in the buddha because he is a good role model, the dharma because it is the truth (it literally mean "truth"), and the sangha because they are good people."

i think this is wrong, you should look to yourself and become a buddha. You shouldn't drain others of their energy.

I guess the sangha are good people because they are genuine (at least you would hope so), they do not have alterior motives and we would hope that this is what we call our friends.

maybe the next question is: what are friends 		100916
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hello to: perfectly chaotic,

you said
" I have heard a buddhist I know say that he takes refuge in the buddha because he is a good role model, the dharma because it is the truth (it literally mean "truth"), and the sangha because they are good people."

i think this is wrong, you should look to yourself and become a buddha. You shouldn't drain others of their energy.

I guess the sangha are good people because they are genuine (at least you would hope so), they do not have alterior motives and we would hope that this is what we call our friends.

maybe the next question is: what are friends? 		100916
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perfectly_chaotic To Hello: I never stated that I am not involved in politics. You're rant about politics is sort of illustrating the whole point I am making about the three klesas. People have differnt values. People, yourself and myself included, will never agree with what is the best course of action. Sentient beings become "attached" to their ideas as well as material possesions, loved ones, etc. This includes their political ideas. The mentioning of politics was not the important part of what I was writing. When people become "attached" to their ideas they gain "passion" for them. Perhaps you can see where I am going with this. Perhaps not. As far as my political views are concerned they are not pertinent to what I am trying to communicate to you. Instead of using political view points as a view point I will use food. One person may hate peaches and love pears. Another person may love peaches and hate pears. Do you think that these two people will ever agree which of the two foods is tastiest? Or perhaps you might agree that they are "attached" to their opinions? If they are "ignorant" of the fact that they will never agree and become really "passionate" about it then perhaps they will get into a fight over it. This would cause some suffering. The concepts contained within the three klesas are far from made up. You can relate them to pretty much any situation in which somebody suffers.

As far as my friends reasoning for taking the triple refuge I do not see what there is to disagree with. The buddha is a good role model, the dharma is the truth(I am quite "passionately attached" to this opinion), and the sangha are good people. Do you view the idea of giving refuge to somebody as a burden? Personally I am delighted when I have the opportunity to provide help to someone else. When I become overly concerned with my own personal needs I become dissatisfied when they are not fully realized. When my view becomes less selfish, when I look for my satisfaction in the delightfulness of helping others I find that the world is much more bearable. Helping others, or allowing them to take refuge in you, is an opportunity to bring everyone involved great joy if the right view is there. Part of this view is not expecting anything in return. If you become "attached" to the idea of getting something for helping somebody else you will inevitably become disappointed whenever you do not get what you feel is coming to you.

Going back to what you stated earlier: "I have been on meditation retreats before and it's perfect while it lasts, however when you step back into reality, it's really hard to keep in a peaceful environment with like minded people. People try and pull and push you in hundred of different ways and by the end of it they seem to drain all the colour out of you." I too have been on retreats; it is true that the world will still be the same world you left when you went on retreat. People will "push and pull you in hundred of differnt ways." Is this not part of the reality of living here on this Earth? It is only your mind which causes you to feel as if "they seem to drain all the colour out of you." This is the reason which I mentioned Buddha Shakyamuni's teaching on the Anguttara Nikaya. It is the mind which chooses to make one think that they should feel one way or another in response to something. Being buddhist or practicing meditation will not change the truth of the way the world is. What it can do is change the way one views that world and make it more workable. This will not happen overnight. It can take many years or even lifetimes of practicing.

To me a friend is someone who will tell me the truth. What is a friend to you? 		100916
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perfectly_chaotic To Hello: I never stated that I am not involved in politics. You're rant about politics is sort of illustrating the whole point I am making about the three klesas. People have differnt values. People, yourself and myself included, will never agree with what is the best course of action. Sentient beings become "attached" to their ideas as well as material possesions, loved ones, etc. This includes their political ideas. The mentioning of politics was not the important part of what I was writing. When people become "attached" to their ideas they gain "passion" for them. Perhaps you can see where I am going with this. Perhaps not. As far as my political views are concerned they are not pertinent to what I am trying to communicate to you. Instead of using political view points as a view point I will use food. One person may hate peaches and love pears. Another person may love peaches and hate pears. Do you think that these two people will ever agree which of the two foods is tastiest? Or perhaps you might agree that they are "attached" to their opinions? If they are "ignorant" of the fact that they will never agree and become really "passionate" about it then perhaps they will get into a fight over it. This would cause some suffering. The concepts contained within the three klesas are far from made up. You can relate them to pretty much any situation in which somebody suffers.

As far as my friends reasoning for taking the triple refuge I do not see what there is to disagree with. The buddha is a good role model, the dharma is the truth(I am quite "passionately attached" to this opinion), and the sangha are good people. Do you view the idea of giving refuge to somebody as a burden? Personally I am delighted when I have the opportunity to provide help to someone else. When I become overly concerned with my own personal needs I become dissatisfied when they are not fully realized. When my view becomes less selfish, when I look for my satisfaction in the delightfulness of helping others I find that the world is much more bearable. Helping others, or allowing them to take refuge in you, is an opportunity to bring everyone involved great joy if the right view is there. Part of this view is not expecting anything in return. If you become "attached" to the idea of getting something for helping somebody else you will inevitably become disappointed whenever you do not get what you feel is coming to you.

Going back to what you stated earlier: "I have been on meditation retreats before and it's perfect while it lasts, however when you step back into reality, it's really hard to keep in a peaceful environment with like minded people. People try and pull and push you in hundred of different ways and by the end of it they seem to drain all the colour out of you." I too have been on retreats; it is true that the world will still be the same world you left when you went on retreat. People will "push and pull you in hundred of differnt ways." Is this not part of the reality of living here on this Earth? It is only your mind which causes you to feel as if "they seem to drain all the colour out of you." This is the reason which I mentioned Buddha Shakyamuni's teaching on the Anguttara Nikaya. It is the mind which chooses to make one think that they should feel one way or another in response to something. Being buddhist or practicing meditation will not change the truth of the way the world is. What it can do is change the way one views that world and make it more workable. This will not happen overnight. It can take many years or even lifetimes of practicing.

To me a friend is someone who will tell me the truth. What is a friend to you? 		100916
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hello i don't understand what you are talking about. It doesn't seem to make any sense. 100917
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hello i like peaches and pears. 100917
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goodbye some ideas are inevitable, there is no other way to go, i am passionately attached to not staying in hell.

you don't have an argument. 		100917
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hi nice hair cut bytheway 100920
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hi maybe you should think about the fashion industry for a new career move? 100920
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. what to do? 100920
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hello IT'S EASY TO MAKE SOMEONE HATE YOU 100921
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hello BUT I DON'T HATE YOU, I DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY FOR IT RIGHT NOW. I GUESS I PITY YOU MOST OF ALL, I HAVE COMPASSION FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE SO LOW DOWN, I WOULD HATE TO BE YOU. 100921
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hello you don't need to worry, i know who my friends are, i never forget. 100921
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unhinged (as my faith has evolved, the answer to what makes me a buddhist has changed. i believe in the generative power of karma; that karma, individual and collective, is what creates the world around us. that there is an end to suffering that comes about from choice, right action. that i want to stay to end the suffering of all beings, that my duty as a practicing buddhist is to cultivate_compassion and in so doing create the world i want to live in. that true goodness and generosity are not merit badge activities, but a compulsion from within to keep the light in our lives glowing strong.


but these are still vague answers where it seems that concrete ones were wished for; there are no concrete answers to these questions. that is why our species still grapples with these things.

karma_is_my_lamp
it has kept me alive at my darkest hours


where do you turn when there's no hope left? that is where all of us have space for religion, worship, spiritual belief. the answers you find when you look will never be the same as anyone elses. just another place where there_are_no_words_here

i rest in the perception of space
floating in groundlessness


spontaneously
i_smile
it is no longer a deception
i_smile) 		180918
what's it to you? blather
who go from