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pete
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an excerpt from plato's 'symposium' as read by pete:
"beautiful, you say? beautiful. what a joke! how can love be beautiful?"
socrates leaned back on his pillows looking mockingly at agathon, who had just finished his speech praising the beauty and goodness of love.
"let me put your proposal to question agathon, and we will see how well it stands against the truth."
"very well socrates, i know you would proceed even if i didnt allow you to."
socrates, grinning like a fool, sipped from his wine and curled up comfortably, leaning over agathon.
"you say love is beautiful, right?"
"indeed"
"well let me start with a different but related line of questioning. a father has to be a father of something."
"correct my friend."
"and in the same sense a mother is a mother of something, a brother a brother of something, and a sister a sister of something."
"of course"
"well then, one cannot be a mother without having a child, a brother without having siblings"
"we have established this already socrates"
"very well. now is love a love of something or a love of nothing?"
"socrates you know as well as I that love is indeed a love of something."
"can there be a love of nothing?"
"such a proposal is perpostrious!" agathon said as he pushed socrates away from his perch.
"well then, my dear agathon, do you love beauty and what is good?"
"yes indeed"
"then, answer me this: if you love beauty and what is good do you have it or not?"
"well i want to have it. that is what love is, the desire to have something beautiful or good!"
"exactly, so therefore love can be neither beautiful nor good because it is the desire to have those qualities. agathon your speech was a slight to the goddess we seek to praise!"
"socrates, you are a wily man but, none the less, one of great wits. i concede and withdraw my statements before and hope the gods in heaven do not punish me for it."
all the men lounging around the table laughed and congradulated socrates on his observations, asking him to make his speech in praise of love.
"well, first let me tell you about my stint with this beautiful hitireai diotima, and in this story all will become clear...."
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