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'skites_on_voting
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jane
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hey folks,
i am just interested in getting your opinions on voting, the voting process, the candidates, and everything in between. i implore you to stay close to topic, but of course blather is an experiment & it's inhabitants can be somewhat tangential...
no matter, just give me some food for thought.
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080123
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p
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i like voting and have worked for the province and the feds in over half of the elections in which i've been eligible to vote.
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080123
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ever dumbening
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just rewind to the conversation you and i had back in september.
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080123
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Voting Vinnie
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Well, I certainly plan on doing it! I appreciate being able to have a say in the national leadership, even if it is a fraction-of-a-percent's input.
What I keep finding, however, is that the candidates I'd like to see in office don't seem likely to win, which means that when November comes, I'll find myself cajoled into voting between two people I have no affinity for.
I am a U.S. voter, and my Democratic choice is Barack Obama, while my Republican choice is Ron Paul. I'd love to be faced with a tough decision between these two in November. Yet something tells me that neither will be on the November ballot.
What I do know is that I cannot support Hillary, solely on the grounds of my objection to Bush 4 / Clinton 8 / Bush 8 / Clinton ... . For me that is a dealbreaker, period. I have no objections to a woman in the White House, but I thoroughly object to anything remotely dynastic in this country.
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080123
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bird
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in this cycle, there is no republican candidate i would endorse.
I'd rather see Edwards as the dem nominee because both Obama and Clinton have been too willing to come off as Republican-lite, but since the allegedly "liberal" media has declared this to be a Clinton v. Obama horse-race, the best that Edwards can do now is to be the VP nominee again.
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080124
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dafremen
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See also: www.daffytimes.com Volume 3
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080124
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z
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it is a privilege, not a responsibility. those who do not, should not complain about outcomes or history. though flawed (i am not a fan of the electoral college) it is the most powerful thing we can do as citizens. it disturbs me that so few americans use their votes.
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080124
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z
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see: democracy
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080124
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dafremen
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Voting is a privilege? So what is storming the government and taking it back by force? Is that a privilege too?
There are a lot of folks who think that the vote is powerful. But the vote is only powerful as a tool of the people, when the will of the people can be properly reflected through it.
When there IS no choice that reflects the will of the people..then the vote is a farce. It is a pageant put on by our leadership for the purpose of blaming citizens for their own dilemmas.
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080124
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minnesota_chris
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"If Voting Changed Anything, They'd Make It Illegal" Emma Goldman
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080124
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REAListic optimIST
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The election is controlled by those who count the votes. Sadly, the only candidate concerned with ensuring a transparent and clean vote count withdrew from the presidential race today. R. I. P. President Kucinich and First Lady Elizabeth.
Sadly, Of the three Democratic front runners, I greatly favor the white male. He seems to be the most principled and truly progressive candidate. Of the Republicans, I favor Ron Paul, though he's actually a libertarian.
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080124
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Captain Demo
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I'd rather live in a democracy, with its imbalances, than in an autocracy, with its imbecilities.
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080126
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p
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C.D. that presupposes that there are no imbecilities in democracy, which is clearly a false statement.
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080126
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minnesota_chris
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it seems that every day, hillary increases her negative rating
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080128
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i*m just sayin
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imbecilities: people voting for a "dry -drunk" because they believe he is someone they would "like to have a beer with"
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080128
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fa
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i was once excited to vote, then i found out how it actually worked.
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080129
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Captain Demo
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You know what, P? I find your retort rather annoying, because it accomplished nothing. You seem to have missed the obvious fact that my original statement also presupposed that there were no imbalances in Autocracy, yet autocracy *is* imbalance. So clearly there was something else going on in that sentence than specific logic. It was not intended to reach some far-flung Fregian perfection. It was a statement about preferring the problems of one system over the problems of another, and I think you understood that. Congratulations on having split a hair, to no apparent end. I know I sure do that a lot around here myself. I think I love you, and now I'm going to stick it in you. *fucking noises* xoxox
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080129
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p
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whoa, apparently i pissed you off. if that isn't an apparent end (not the intended one) i don't know what is. you just squashed my hair and filled it with dirt, where as i pointed out a contradiction. if one assumes that democracy is rational or intelligible (i.e. not imbellecilic) you end up in a lot of trouble.
i don't know what 'simple fregeian logic' even means, so i doubt it's what i was getting at, unless its one of those things you internalize at your mother's knee.
we're dealing with imperfection in every case. no balance, no rationality. we're dealing with human beings. emotional. jumping to conclusions. falleable.
yet here, at least, we still vote. the government will step down. sure it's stock full of liars and hypocrites and imbeciles either way, full of an imbalance between parties voted for and parties with seats, no corollary will capture it or be enough to push forward a conversation.
so, at the end, chill out dude.
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080129
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z
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the rule of law is the goal, not the reality. we live in imperfect circumstances as everyone always does. i will agree that democracy is the imperfect flavor that i prefer, but ask people in afganistan, iraq or russia what form of government they require and you will get answers varying from autocracy to theocracy with a mere tip of the hat to democracy mixed in. some cultures do not seem to believe in our "universal truth" of self determination, even in principle. to me this implies that these cultures profoundly mistrust themselves as a group, believing that the wise few must lead the masses. i will always choose flawed democracy over those systems, given the opportunity, and struggle to keep this one (america) from slipping towards them in any way. the rule of law must remain the standard.
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080129
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