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the_cellar_of_castlevania_four
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andru235
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hear the music, forget the game. it is one of the songs i now sing. but you must forget your associations with the game to understand...indeed, most of the music from that game...especially the enterance area...but forget the game...or, use the game a symbol for something else ;)
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050822
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stork daddy
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but the game is the music. and the music the game. and when you hear the music outside of the game, it brings the outside into the game.
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050823
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andru235
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you're...kidding me.
there is nothing inherent in music that connects it to anything else. the same song might have two beautiful, but very different feelings, if attached to two differing sets of words. music is absolute, my dear!
stravinsky may call it a rite of spring, but if in my head the experience is more like the rite of autumn, i'm not incorrect.
it is humans who shackle music to unrelated associations. music is not inherently shackled to concrete ideas. if people hear a series of diminished seconds and think 'jaws', it is their loss, that they do not hear all the other things that the exact same passage might represent.
so while i agree that the video game music is the game, i disagree because the video game music is also many, many other musics than video game.
as an example, various tetris versions use russian music - esp. the original macintosh version, a miniature russian-music showcase. is that music to be divested of its original meaning (a sugarplum fairy, or a dance of sabres) so that the video game meaning (falling bricks) may replace it? in fact there is no inherent meaning. any piece of music - screw the words; thats a whole different art - might be attached to any event, but the way in which the two connect will vary from song to event to listener. ah, sweet infinities.
there was something concrete i was implying in the first post, but i now observe it was another futile effort to think it would convey itself.
i open my mouth, and what comes out? "aoifje aof iauhdsf aiuesbf kjasdf kahsd kjabsuyb aveuyfb afybe aoihdfs."
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050823
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stork daddy
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right. no doubt music can be associated with a variety of things and has no inherent associations other than the relationship between the notes, but that wasn't really what i was saying. i mean yay death of the author etc., but really the music is mostly associated with the game because video games especially require repeated exposure to the same music during the same. usually the music loops too so that no matter how long you play the song remains and has a consistent character to it. of course the music has merit on its own (which is why i listen to video game music on cds while i'm driving) but the fact remains that most video game music is specifically composed to match up thematically with certain motions and sequences that the game contains. you can very easily see the game in the relationship between the notes. so i beg to differ that differty types of music don't have different inherent evocative qualities. for instance, in castlevania 2: simon's quest...when the screen goes black and says what a terrible night for a curse and the enemies pick up their pace visibly, the music also picks up its pace and becomes a more frantic repeating of the same, earlier more languid, theme. the structures and relationships on screen are paralleled by the structures and relationships in the music. no doubt the composer intends this to heighten dramatic effect and immersion in the gaming experience. so when i say the game is the music and the music is the game, i think it is a correct statement. they may not be coterminous, but certainly they intersect more than they do not.
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050823
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stork daddy
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and yeah...humans are the ones that shackle meaning to music...but the same can be said of everything in the universe. and there are inherent qualities in humans, in our psychology that i think causes us to tend towards certain feelings when we experience different types of sounds or music. a shrill note is always shrill and almost always gives off the impression of alarm.
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050823
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rollerblade playstation
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andru, i love you, but i have to agree with stork. think of a clockwork orange. that wasn't an example of right use of beethoven, i don't think. there's room for interpretation, but a healthy society doesn't allow too too much relativization. and besides, i would sincerely desire that a rite of spring would sound like spring and not autumn, to everybody living in the same hemisphere. otherwise what would be the point of going through the seasons together on this particular planet? i go for loose interpretations, not loose associations.
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050823
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r.p.
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rather i DO think there's room for interpretation.
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050823
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andru235
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and what *i* love is that stork daddy listens to video game music on cds whilst driving! i don't have the means to make this a reality for myself, but i would do so in a heartbeat if i could. well, maybe in two or three heartbeats. actually, since i have arhythmia, its hard to know how many heartbeats it would take. probably an odd number, i'm guessing, but who really knows these days.
i...uh...well. look. my primary music tastes are baroque, renaissance, video game music, classical, romantic, techno, and jazz, in that order. that makes me one of the planet's biggest fans of spicing my foods with tarragon. seriously, you should try it. there is no telling how much tarragon you will start going through when the music from the cellar of castlevania four is your hundred-and-sixty-seventh favorite piece of music as of 12:07 August 24th, 2005, central standard.
but anyway, part of me agrees with you both, it really does. but let me say this. for years, i loved the brahms' edward ballade (op10.#1, d minor) without knowing the program. i agree that, knowing what the program is, the music fits. but i still have a totally different association to the song than that of edward killing his mother. that's...much more horrid than what the raw music evokes in me. so i am [selfishly] glad that brahms did not disclose a program for the other ballads if there was one.
and also, i totally think that most video game music fits the game, and is a critical factor in the game's mood et al. but i for my own part have found that - as with other musics - there is some real value if i listen to the music and ask, "what does this song mean to me?" of course, i tend to personalize everything, so that is my issue. i like it. i don't like it at all. i like it again. what to do with myself!
let's make this all about me. please? oh, alright. let's not. darn.
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050823
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andru235
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oh and sd, that /is/ a great example, the cv2 night music. truly a spooky shift!
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050823
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