the_great_pot


	the_great_pot_debate
dafremen	Would get a tremendous kick in the ass if pot smokers everywhere would just start tossing their seeds wherever they went. Johnny Potseed anyone?	070816
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.	yeah, i mean when you've got loads of it, you don't really seem to want it anymore, don't ask me why.	070816
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sameolme	Ah, memories! When I was 13, I went on a pot sowing mission. I started the plants at home and then planted them in out of the way clearings, vacant lots, etc. As I rode my bike around town, the idea that I was a Johnny pot seed occurred to me. I planted hundreds in about 20 locations. Five years later the authorities mounted an eradication war.	070816
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unhinged	i just don't get why if alcohol is legal pot isn't. any argument they use to keep pot illegal could also be used to make alcohol illegal. ah, gah, bah. besides, they could legalize it, tax it, and then i wouldn't have to pay income tax anymore and more than likely there would be more revenue.	070817
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unhinged	(and yes i am aware of the whole prohibition thing; and you'd think the government would catch on to that too. making something illegal never stopped anyone.)	070817
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daf	What follows are some excerpts from my bout with anti-pothead conservatives. (As opposed to pro-pothead conservatives like me.)	070817
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dafremen	"maybe you should pay attention to the real issue which is it is ILLEGAL and that's what my tax dollars go for is to pay for that! If we allow government to ignore the law then it causes problems. Just look at illegal immigration! So is it a waste? It is only a waste if the law is ignored. AND don’t tell me people who do pot don’t do any harm because I knew people who would commit break-ins and robberies to pay for their pot and other CRAP they liked to take. It’s a minority of pot users who are NOT criminals. It’s sad that you think knowing the difference between RIGHT and WRONG is narrow minded!" - AlwaysASceptic "It’s a minority of pot users who are NOT criminals." That is the most misinformed statement on this thread yet. If by criminal, you mean...they smoke pot..then yes, but by all other standards, the vast majority of marijuana smokers claim that pot is to them, what beer is to others. Some state that the "full" feeling associated with beer or the lack of physical coordination turned them off to alcohol years ago. Some simply have stomach issues which make a social relaxant which is inhaled a much better choice for them. All of that aside, the vast majority of pot smokers are very much like the vast majority of beer drinkers: for the most part law abiding citizens who probably speed on the highway a little here and there, who might have 4 yard sales in a year instead of the mandated two, but who...for the most part: go to work, pay their taxes, love their families and try (some harder than others) to be good people. It seems that you have been HORRIBLY misinformed about the true nature of people who smoke pot. They are just like any other group..some are bad, but most are good. They are your relatives. They are your neighbors. They are all around you. Potheads are here to stay. Peace,	070817
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Albunai	"Didn't we already have this issue on the ballot a couple years ago? Obviously memory is effected by cronic pot smoking..... Not only was it defeated then it was done so in a larger than expected way. Matter of fact the man who lead the charge on that committed suicide earlier this year did he not?"	070817
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dafremen	Your comment sounds like a fluffed up version of someone on the basketball court saying "owned." What exactly is your point? That the system doesn't do enough fast enough to redress the grievances of its citizens? That the process is too slow? Or that some people in the community have mental health issues? What I found particularly ironic was the way you chose, in typical hate-monger fashion, to EXPLOIT the death of another human being, in order to somehow make this very shallow, very petty...point(?) About a topic earlier (see: Hurray for girls gone mild!) you were asking how DARE I try to something something (I'm not sure I even remember. Must be that cronic memory loss thing you were talking about, or the fact that it wasn't worth reserving the brain cells for..I'll get back to you on that one) but anyhow, how dare I something something to someone's efforts at something or other. Well pardon me, didn't realize that the appropriate areaa for conversation was the dead who have no way of defending themselves. Way to go, yer a debate champion, and a real stand up example of the sort of tactics and thinking that fighting an unjust war leads to. Whenever people try to defend unjust and illogical causes, they end up having to resort to mean, petty, elementary school tactics like these, because they haven't got a leg to stand on in the debate department. Next please. You're a bad bumper sticker. -	070817
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Albunai	"Nice try dafreman but you're gonna have to take your ruffled feathers elsewhere. Typical liberal as you are who can't get a point across without some talking point drummed up by the wacko liberals. (i.e. "unjust war") A whole different topic that if you want we can debate all day. I am more than happy to show you how just and necessary our efforts are, dispite you anti-war folks that want to have your cake and eat it to for free. Here is something to think about... Drugs have a direct connection to terrorism now. Drug cartells(sp) are illustrating a direct link to it, and this includes pot."	070817
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dafremen	Abunai, Just so you know. I'm not a liberal, in any way shape or form. The ONLY reason for the attitudes we see today are the late 30s early 40s anti-marijuana propaganda and the Nancy Reagan "everything is bad for you" onslaught of the 80s. Before these brainwashing campaigns..you would have found your own position absurd. In fact, it would have been practically inconceivable for you to be as hard line against marijuana as you are now, had it not been for the massive campaigns launched for the purpose of making you think the way you do today. (Mostly for purposes of increasing production, lowering absenteeism and making wood based paper a viable market product.) No sir, I'm not a liberal. I believe in strong families. I believe in the right of the average citizen to keep and bear ANY weapon that the average government foot soldier can carry. (I don't own weapons myself. My wife is bipolar and I have children.) I believe that school is destroying our children. I believe that welfare is a trap and that we pay more in taxes than we get in services and value. No sir, I'm no liberal. I'm an American...right down the line. I love this land, and have little love for the idiots that are running it and no patience for their constituent morons who would point a finger at another human being (with a beer in their other hand mind you) and tell them they are a criminal and a bad person...because they smoke an herb that never did ANYONE any harm until it was made illegal. No, I'm no liberal..in fact...I'm very conservative. I'm just not follow-the-herd sheep-bunched-together conservative. And I'm definitely not like whatever kind of conservative you are. The sort that points to his fellow man..with nothing but some words put on paper by politicians(aka LIARS and CROOKS) as his guide..and says: you are a criminal. (So the politicians told you that did they? Hmmm. Ok, if they say so...must be true.) You hate that which you do not agree with. That is not American. That is some monster that has grown in the petri dish of American culture. It is singularly offensive to anyone who values the principle upon which this country was formed. To disagree and to remain brothers..this is the American way. That cannot be achieved in the petty, name-calling based upon assumptions that you seem to enjoy engaging in. You sir, appear to be an ally of division, and certainly those who divide us..should not be counted among us..for they are..and will continue to be our downfall.	070817
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shnrbtlle	"I have been smoking pot since I was 13 years old,I am far from lazy, I held a job for five years before the company went under, After that I started a lawncare buss. still going strong!! I also have a small engine shop, doing fine I work hard all day long and through the night, believe me I am far from lazy, Yeah when I smoke a joint with a friend on the shore of a river that we are fishing in, I do sit back and RELAX, but its not from being lazy, its because I work hard in my life and I deserve a break. You need to worry about what is killing more people that anything else on the planet, Alchohol!! And what about cigeretts, OH, THATS LEGAL TOO!! C'mon folks, Grass is green it grows in the ground, if GOD did'nt want it, it would'nt be around, so all you stiffs who dont get high, get off your but and give it a try!!!!! One more thing, people who smoke pot explain things to you, People who don't, Argue with you!!!"	070817
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AlwaysASceptic	"Shnrbtlle You are one of a few people who smoke and still hold a job and may be a productive member of society. BUT pot has never been a society norm like alcohol and cigarettes and should remain that way. It cause more harm than good to society not to mention the resent study that one JOINT damages your lungs 5 time more than a single cigarette and still impairs your judgment. Shnrbtlle THINK! And my guess is your hard working job you don’t need to think too much… Like a package handler at UPS. Did I guess it? It’s that or something similar. AND Who do you think you are saying anything about GOD? You obviously know nothing about GOD! God put Adam and Eve in the Garden and asked them NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge, and thus humanity fell to SIN. But I shouldn’t expect you to wrap you POT FILLED mind around that. Maybe this will help. God put rattle snakes around why don’t you go kiss one… or why don’t you feed a hungry bear? God put him there. The point is WE as individuals have choice and as a community make laws to help keep some sort of sanity! You are sad that you can even understand that because of all the dope you’ve consumed! Shnrbtlle WAY TO GO! KEEP IT UP!"	070817
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dafremen	I'm a software engineer. I have two dislocated ribs in my back. The medical establishment doesn't care to admit that a low impact accident could cause such an injury. My choices? Keep going in every two weeks for the "temporary muscle strain" pain reliever medication the doctors prescribe when they misdiagnose my injury, or keep myself constantly supplied with weed. Marijuana relaxes the muscles in my back allowing the ribs to be "popped" back in. (They come back out within a short time as I breath and have to be relocated again.) As for "under the influence"... There may be THC in my system and I definitely will not pass a wizz test, but unless you have had severe chronic pain..you have no idea how the effect works. I smoke weed to reach a normal level of function. Without it, I am constantly cranky and miserable because of the pain. The only time I really feel a "high" is when the ribs get popped back in. It's very strange, because then I am INSTANTLY very high...as though my brain comes to realize the high after the pain is gone. I'm not lazy, nor did I work a non-skilled job. As a matter of fact, I am an ex-software engineer with two U.S. Patents for software design to my name. I have been at various times, involved with as many as 5 programmers under me and with development projects that lasted as long as 3 years..a million lines of code to wrap my brain around was pretty standard. I worked 10 - 14 hour days...sometimes 6 days a week. And I was self-medicating with marijuana..the entire time. It didn't effect my coordination, or my ability to think. Short term memory was occasionally a problem, but I have ADD..I already had tricks to remember things..they worked fine. Alot of people smoke pot. Normal people. The same sort of people that drink beer. It's not all that aberrant or abhorrent. In fact, it's a lot less damaging to the human body than either alcohol OR cigarettes..and that's a fact. Every argument that has been brought to bear against marijuana smokers has been charged with assumptions about who we are, and what we do, and what we believe. We are pretty much like non-pot smokers..except that we smoke pot. That's all. - A Somewhat Extraordinary, Mostly Normal, Pot Smoking Guy	070817
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dafremen	I'd like to make two final comments: The first is to the people who bring up the tired old "Gateway Drug" argument. First off, the vast majority of people who try pot, or smoke pot occasionally do not use it chronically. Many decide to use only occasionally, have a short "pothead phase" or simply do not enjoy the intensity of the "high" and choose not to continue using it. Any "Gateway effect" occurs in a very minimum of cases in the long term, and most experimentation beyond marijuana is just that...experimentation. What's REALLY ironic though, is that the only reason harder drugs become available in relation to marijuana is because it is illegal. Because pot is illegal, it is available only on the black market. Unfortunately, the black market includes much harder substances too. Once a person has found marijuana, they've hooked into the "illegal things network." That's where any "Gateway effect" comes from. Sad isn't it? The second comment is for the Christians and God fearing people who keep using God as a word to punish other people verbally. How dare you? How dare you use the name of God..the most loving notion in the human repertoire of ideals...how DARE you use that loving word as a weapon to back up your OWN ideas about how people should behave? Don't you believe that God knows what He is doing? Or are you so filled with doubt that you would second guess the moments He has made? Shame on you for your lack of faith. You should know better. - A very much in love with God and life, pot smoking guy	070817
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daf	P.S. I completely surrender to the notion that God is certainly not a HE or a SHE. English needs another pronoun.	070817
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Otto Xref	gender_neutral	070817
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high viscosity lights up a spliff	forgive me for the length, but i thought that this great article fits and should be read by all here. reagrds, By: Frank White An exact operation is shut down. A $10 million dollar basement is raided and broken up. Police take the drugs the money, barricade the house. The news cameras flash as shots for the next day’s paper are being captured. Chalk one up for the good guys. We’re one step closer to solving our drug problem. That insidious disease that has captured our youth, taken the impressionable minds hostage and, unbeknownst to them, is slowly killing the great potential they hose within themselves. Drugs! Those terrible little things that compromise the moral fiber of out society-their use is on the rise y’know. In the last decade alone the number of drug user in Canada has neatly doubled! Even with all the media coverage and education, these kids, they still do the drugs. Why? What is it about the danger of illicit narcotics, the stigma of rebellious behaviour surrounding their use and the uninhabited fun of gettin’ high that attracts our precious children? Drugs are bad, don’t they know? Our drug problem; we spend billions of dollars a year trying to solve it. But why? Statistics for annual death seem to indicate that our efforts need to be reprioritized. Tobacco, in a yea kills 395,000 people. Alcohol kills 125,000. Prescription or OTC-drugs-you know, the one your doctor tells you to use-kills 38,000 people a year. The magic number of illegal drug overdose: 5,200. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, the licensing of alcohol merchants and the moral and official approval of “medication”, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war? The vices we are allowed to have, the dependencies we have on government approved medication, are responsible for over half a million deaths a year, and we’re sizing pills out of some guy’s basement? The truth is we don’t have a drug problem. But the war on drugs is a multimillion-dollar industry, generated by the tax dollars of Mr. and Mrs. Blue collar who choose to take the moral high ground on the issue and live in denial that their teenage son is chillin’ in the basement with his boys, gettin’ high right in the middle of their calm and quiet Suburbia. The fact of the matter is drugs, to the user, are no a problem. If anything they are a solution. You work the shift. You’re bored most of it, contemplating how you dreamed of being in so many other places so many times and yet managed to end up here. You smile, you make fake conversation with the blank people that surround you, you eat lunch, you check the clock, you check the clock, you check the clock…Your feet hurt, your back hurts, but neither really do, it’s just your brain going numb from the boredom of the daily rut. It’s just that you hate this and you know it but you need this so you do it but you hate yourself a little for settling, for letting the security of a paycheck tempt you into forgetting that you once wanted to be an astronaut, a doctor, a leader. Or maybe you don’t. Maybe you’re fine with work and it’s the wife and kids that get you, the drive home, the cracks in the sidewalk. Whatever it is, she’ll take it all away. She will make it all better. She will be there, no judgment, just comfort. A quick vacation, a trip, a couple of tokes, one good hit, just one dose, maybe two, a pull, a drag, a tab, a sip, a swig, a shot, however, she likes to down… Escape. The world you see, will continue to have a drug problem so long as its people are better alternative. We knock instant gratification as the curse of the temptation but, let’s be real here, both instantaneousness and gratification are good things. If I spend a long time working on something, I’m working towards a gratification. That’s not wrong, that’s hard work rewarded. Now, imagine like microwaves, like the internet, like every development of the information age, if we were rewarded with what we wanted, what we were looking for, with the minimum amount of wait time required. Imagine if it was instant! Drugs aren’t unproductive. They don’t make you lazy. They make you, instead, see that the rat race, the grind, is absurd. They make you realize that there’s more out there than the boxes and bubbles we have chosen to fit our lives into. They allow you the rare experience, in today’s high speed world, to be in that state described by Buddhist Idealism as: “In the moment.” It’s Satori in Japanese Zen, it’s Moksha in Hinduism, it’s cosmic consciousness in the West. It’s an alternate state of being that has been experienced by sages and Rishis meditating in the Himalayas, hermits of the Parvalti Valley, atisians who have created some of the most beautiful and inspired work known to man and I, for one, am tired of being told that getting’ high is bad for me. No! poverty is bad for me. A garbage job, a shitty car, a low self esteem, a tainted body image, the things I accept as part of my life so that I can participate in this society of over consumption: those things are bad for me. Drugs? Drugs are just something I do. And something more and more people seem to be doing these days. Like I said, drug use is on the rise; nearly doubled in the last decade! But let’s look at what this number really mean. Regardless of the fact that the numbers are really rising, hard drug use makes up only 2.2% of the population. There is no ridiculous epidemic and hardly enough of a problem to justify a “war on drugs.” There is only the mild exaggeration of the situation so that a few more papers can get sold and a few more tax dollars can be righteously collected. The fact that the numbers happen to be rising is no indication of a problem. It, instead, is an indication of a growing trend. Like the number of SUV’s being driven, or the rise in Hip Hop albums sales, or the popularity of the colour pink. And just like almost all other trends, this one is cyclic. The oh so scary numbers were on the decline for a number of years if you go back in the records past the last decade. And they were on the increase if you go back even before that to the late 60’s and early 70’s. There is no problem, ladies and gentlemen, not with drugs. Look, I’m not to prove that illicit narcotics are good for you. I’m not an idiot. The 5200 people killed by the overdose of illegal drugs still count for something. But we have to see this “disease” for what it really is: a consequence of a society built on the foundations of consumption. We have masses of men and women feeling under-represented, lacking a voice, we have children ignored by their overworked parents who are forced to raise them in front of a TV, we have the largest discrepancy between rich and poor that the world has ever seen, we have more and more and more of everything and its suffocating. Every time you’re offered a hit, you make a choice. In the words of John Hodge, either you choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life. Or take a hit and let it all melt away. What would you choose? .	070818
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lady_jane	Where I am, Columbia, MO, there were two propositions on the ballot in 11/04. One was for "smart sentencing," which stated basically, the posession of up to an ounce is punishable by a $250 fine and is not passed on to the state courts, but kept in the county. This makes it so that if you are caught with less than an ounce (it might even be an ounce and a half) you are not in danger of losing your federal student loans. The other proposition was for the legalization for medical use. I'm not sure on all the details surrounding that one. I didn't think either one would pass. Not only did they pass, they passed by a much greater margain than I (or anyone) expected. I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure it was over 65%. It makes living in this city a little nicer than others...	070818

what's it to you?	blather
who go	from