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redundant_pretenses
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sameolme
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True pretenses are hard to come by,
but the false ones are everywhere.
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081214
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Amused
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And this? Is this not a "mere display: SHOW" (def. 2)? Are you implying that you are free of the latter and imbued with the former (thereby meeting def. 3: "an attempt to attain or display a certain condition")? Because if your answer to these both is "no", then you've demonstrated def. 4: "false show".
I guess it takes one to know one!
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081214
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sameolme
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Nope, just pointing out that
the common usage "a false pretense"
is redundant.
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081214
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Not Amused
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Well, one of the definitions of pretense is "claim"... dunno which number in Amused's schema. While this usage implies falsity to some, it isn't pretense's inherent meaning. A pretense may be true or false. If unaccompanied by the word "false", the traditional implication is that the pretense is either true, or unexamined. Therefore "false pretense" is not redundant at all because it makes a necessary distinction. However, "false pretense" has become something of a cliche.
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081214
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sameolme
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Have you ever heard somebody refer to a
true pretense, I talking usage not book
learnin.
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081214
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somebody
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i have to agree with n.a. on this one, a false pretense is known to be false whereas plain old pretense suggests the claim might be false but might be true
this holds in general use and scholastically as well
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081214
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tourist
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I've always thought of it as a Screen,
or Appearance, Like a Facade, sometimes what is behind it is a version of what is being shown, Sometimes It Isn't. Sometimes the Intentions are actual, though other Effects are Often Realised as a Result.
ie. The police stop you on the pretense of a faulty tail light, but you happen to have an Open Bottle of Liquor, and a Smoldering Hash Pipe.
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081215
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sameolme
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I concede that my pretense of being
a qualified judge of redundancy may be
false.
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081215
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Not Amused
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Well... even the world's best judge of redundancy has surely erred once or twice. Perhaps you are now on your way to redundant greatness.
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081215
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z
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"true pretense" is oxymoronic, i think.
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081216
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sameolme
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Ack! As soon as I concede that pretenses may be true, they are slandered. If a "true pretense" is an
oxymoron then a "false pretense" is
indeed redundant.
I think I'll go hide under a pretext.
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081216
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z
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a pretext, however, can be true and redundant.
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081216
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..
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The modifier used for pretenses and pretexts is "valid".
A valid pretense is usually a valid pretext, but a valid pretext is not necessarily a valid pretense (because a pretext does not necessarily involve claims).
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081216
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z
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yes. that sounds right.
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081216
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