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2nd_amendment
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stork daddy
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My personal opinion is, though paranoid nra members everywhere insist that disarming the populace is the first step towards a dictatorship, that it is the right to peacably assemble and the freedom of speech as well as the checks and balances of the branches of government which keep our government from ever being too far apart from the will of the public. We have always surrendered certain rights for the security of other ones. And if a government does not have an agreed upon monopoly of force it isn't really a government. Any cause that would be unpopular enough to cause a revolt is hard to imagine getting very far in a system of representative democracy. of course critics would argue that it is the threat of revolt that holds such a system together. but in reality most people do not own and are not well trained with guns, and were the government to shut down the borders on them, they would become very hard to procur. All of this leads to my concern that the 2nd amendment really just arms lunatic fringes, magnifying their potential voices to dangerous levels (a lunatic with a knife can't kill a room full of people), far out of proportion to and surpassing the rights of self expression and the basic rights which are afforded to citizens of this country: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A society in which each citizen is allowed to be armed and use those arms as a means of disagreeing with the government, defending his own individual rights would degrade into marshal law and anarchy. Force should only be a last option, defending the most basic rights should tyranny try to strip them. But each and every person should not be the judge and jury as to when those rights are threatened, unless they are in a life or death situation (even then, if citizens gave up their guns, it might be harder for criminals and potential criminals to get them as there would be less floating around in the system and in the black market). The right to bear arms seems especially overzealous when you consider that we live in a government that was specifically designed to offer means to change itself peaceably so as to avoid tyranny and the neccessity of revolt. Due process of law is what separates us from a state of constant fear and fighting. One need only look at the civil rights movement to see that in this country, our "rulers" understand that they need people to rule, and that at some point in any society the direct application of force has to cease. History has shown that discontent will almost always undermine a government, especially one whose people are used to the rights we all enjoy. Some would say people grow complacent when they drop their guns. I'd say it's more that they're secure in their ability to communicate and consolidate against threats to their freedoms implying the force of population, which implies the ability to revolt without the actual need for weapons. I think people can be secure in the knowledge that their happiness and the freedoms they are afforded in their ability to compete and cooperate and thrive is a necessary ingredient in making this country as powerful as it is and that any government that threatened that would degrade itself on a world level opening itself up to vulnerability from the outside. This of course only holds if you don't buy into some elite shadow government planning to rule the world. I tend to be pragmatic and think the rulers of each country are too selfish for any conspiracy like that to ever take place and feel that we should base our policy on likely events not possibilities. After all, it's possible (in that it can't be proven false) that poiseidon rises out of the sea tomorrow and eats san francisco. I don't think we need to develop anti-poiseidon weaponry though. Mainly i just want to see if there are any rabid nra folks out there. It's amazing how they flock to a statement like this.
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030903
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stork daddy
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even if you agree with protection from criminals as a reason for keeping the amendment, it remains a mystery why people feel that assault rifles should be included on the list. Should individuals be able to buy tanks as well?
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030903
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oldephebe
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i read this
haven't thought in this vein for a while
don't really feel like firing up the old cerebelum..but yeah i dig what your sayin' - shows a sharp mind at work
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030903
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birdmad
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i support the 2nd amendment, but the NRA's argument doesn't totally hold water... The general populace of Iraq, by many estimates and as can be guessed from the continuing violence, was pretty well-armed and they were a dictatorship where people still lived in fear of a tyrannical state.
too many of today's 2nd amendment advocates come across as being barely any more sane than guys like Tim McVeigh, like paramilitary wanna-be warlords...
people ought to be more concerned about the well-being of the first and fourth amendments right now, between the Patriot Act and the rhetoric of John Ashcroft and Ann "Goebbels in a mini-skirt" Coulter who have tried to equate dissenting opinion with outright treason or terrorist sympathy
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030904
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oldephebe
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i so emphatically agree!!!
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030904
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stork daddy
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that's what i'm talking about. those are the necessary freedoms.
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030904
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stork daddy
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i guess people think the guns back it up...but i really think that it's the sense of entitlement and solidarity that keeps the right to dissent alive. the minute people are willing to be quiet. it's too late for even guns, because their spirit has been broken.
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030904
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stork daddy
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and god john ashcroft is a weirdo
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030904
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bandersnatch
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im gnnna go out on a limb here, and say that most people who have posted here up tp this point were born and raised in the city where the almost sole purpose of guns is to rob people, stop people from being robbed, and giving something to the cops to make them look cool.
but guns are more than just instraments of crime. what about hunting? are you saying that people shouldnt be alowed to hunt anymore? are you saying that going to fireing ranges, where people who like to shoot but not hurt anybody, should be outlawed? what about the riffles and shotguns and pistols that have historicle importance, should they be destroyed (okok, i realise that the last example was beond the point, but still...)? what about farmers and ranchers who need to kill cyotees who pick off their calfs, or foxes after hens?
im not saying that automatic weapons, or assult rifles be on every corner, or every person should go around and carry a conceiled weapon because they can, but im saying that guns are a part of our herratage, and they are still an important part of this country.
when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will carry guns.
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030904
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stork daddy
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yeah...murder is also part of this country's heritage. assault rifles should be banned. and if you look at countries that don't have guns the crime rates and death by gunshot are both most often dramatically lower than they are in the states. this is for a lot of reasons, but also because it makes it harder for criminals to get guns and also less necessary and more dangerous when there are strict restrictions on gun posession. however, for hunting, sure...certain guns are appropriately legal. i think though if you need an assault rifle to hunt, you probably should quit before you accidentally hit your guide dog.
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030905
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Strideo
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"And if a government does not have an agreed upon monopoly of force it isn't really a government."
Thats right, the government is the only entity which can acheive its goals with guns. This nation was formed because when we DID NOT agree upon the government's "monopoly of force" we fought against it and formed the United States. The reason we have the second amendment is because the founders of this nation beleived that governments inherently tend lean towards overbearingness and the tyranical.
We have allready abandoned much of their philosophy the most important, I think, is that the government that governs least governs best.
...
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030905
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stork daddy
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libertarians have no clue. a government is necessary for certain functions...i don't trust market corrections with making sure my beef doesn't have e.coli...i like to have a centralized organization to do that. i like having a police force. and an education system. my point was that there can't be a government unless it has certain federalist rights, and one of them is a monopoly on deciding when force is appropriate. your mistake is equating the government with some shadowy group (although not too far off with this administration) and not with what our government is...a representative democracy. so yes our government should have a monopoly on force, but our government is dictated by the voice of its people. my point is that it is the rule of law that we control and that allows us to decide which laws are most appropriate. the rule of the gun has been around for much longer, and some would argue it led to our system in a sort of teleological way. Either way, any government that gives its citizens the right to cecede violently whenever they disagree isn't a government at all. The civil war proved this. Instead, we are given the option of changing legislation in a less explosive manner, albeit a less costly one as well. This is why i say we need not fear the government taking us over, because at some level we are the government. The politicians in the white house, in the congress and senate, the judges on the supreme court...they all want power, power that stems from our support of them, something they compete with each other for...they are the checks and balances put in place by the constitution. It's like the old saying goes, "if you want something guarded, hire competing thieves" The most guns could ever do is give more firepower to an unpopular cause. A cause that is popular, such as being free, does not need guns. It has the force of labor and manpower behind it. No one in their right mind would break that kind of union with force.
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030906
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stork daddy
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remember...our revolution was not because the other government had a monopoly on force but because there was taxation without representation. they fought for more representation. in a government where that is the only voice you have, indeed the government is the enemy. That is why they wrote in mechanisms of non-violent change into our constitution, so that the future revolutions could be bloodless. The constitution was written to keep in check the inherent greed the founders saw in most rulers up to that point in history. The 2nd amendment is a miniscule part of that. And in this modern world, it makes even less sense. Like i said before, any cause so unpopular that it would make widespread revolution a reality would have trouble being put down by anything but nuclear weapons. Governments take over by isolating the individual, by making the individual feel there is no support but theirs and the compromises that entails. In this day and age when people have seen how quickly they can communicate, it will be hard to take that from them. It is more our expectation of freedom than our posession of force that keeps us free. It is more the framework and the laws of the constitution than the implied force that keeps us free. When the war of independance began, none of those men were trained to be soldiers, and weapons had to be procured from other countries. It was the motivation to be free that freed them.
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030906
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silentbob
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SCENE:
Man with shotgun stands in a center of a circle of dead bears, their forelegs all severed.
MAN IN SUIT: What the hell do you think you're doing?!
MAN WITH GUN: Hey! No fair! you can't arrest me now, right after you told me i had the right to bear arms!
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030906
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ferret
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non-dairy milk is sold in over 1 country
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030906
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ferret
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speaking of which, is america the only country that insists everything be non-fat?
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030906
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doyouwantme
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no not our bodies we must like them fat.
not.
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030907
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nomatter
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no, nevermind, i have nothing to say.
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030916
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oldephebe
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why we cling to obsolescence and antiquarian dictums as a rationale that constitutes a cogent or coherent argument for participating in the blood lust, pointless harvest of wild life, pretty, picky and petty and pointless, a pretext so what comes next..the gun another essentially phallic crutch, a compensatory comfort..I spent most of my childhood in rural PA and I always recoiled inwardly when my friends would boast about their first kill, how many lives must fall, how many dead must litter the land scape..pull the trigger..then slink away before your tired argument begins to rigor..mortus..lotta money to be made..lotta bills that won't get paid..so let me have my gun and good old clean midwestern american..fun..fun..gimme my gun.you better run run run..need my gun to blot out urban blight, suburban flight..
five more shots and ah buck buck buck another one falls..i'm strapped, got my gatt, solace in an instrument of death..i just don't get it..my gun gives me the glow..and nothin' can replace it..secnd amendment iwill endlessly defend down to point of my muzzled barrel in ya ear, have i made my self clear..i make my argument with a pen..and then a gun if that doesn't sway you..rip out all the rhetoric forget this ..hard core the metal and the bore, nice and clean oiled chambers, back up on off a' me with a gun..danger..rattle the cage..call in the sages..law achools..packed with prestadigitators for hire, legal ledgerdemain..pick their brain..hollah back and distill the hieroglyphics make a winning argument for us..or your won't get this..paid..dollah dollah' bill..ready fo' the kill..i got it made..flex the dogma and the dialectic.
yeah the argument in favor of guns are just as full of pointless and absurdist conjecture as the scrambled ramble in the above post, gimme a break..
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030917
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tyler waters
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"Father what have I done?
I took that 22
A gift to me from you
To bed with me each night
Kept it clean
Polished it well
Cherished every cartridge, every shell
Down, by the creek, under brush, under dirt
There's a carcass of my second kill
Down, by the park, under stone, under pine
There's a carcass of my brother William
Brother where, have you gone to?
I swear, I never thought I could
I see so many times
They told me to shoot straight
Don't pull the trigger, squeeze
That will insure a kill
A kill is what you want
A kill is why we breed
The Christians love their guns
The church and NRA"
- an excerpt from nofx's 'the decline'
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040707
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poet
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oh my god, stork daddy, everything you said in this blathe... i agree TOTALLY and COMPLETELY.
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040708
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unhinged
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now if all the psycho assault rifle second amendment absolutists actually used those guns to stand up to government tyranny that would be a different story...
but today's militias are the remnants of the vietnam soldiers who resurrected the confederate flag because they didn't want to have to fight beside black soldiers, the families in OR that remember that state was founded on not allowing black people to own property, forget that most of TX, NM, AZ, and CA used to be part of mexico.
go ahead
rise up against the government
oh that's right
you are the same assholes that worship a billionaire who was a BAD businessman cause he blows the right whistles that activate the dumbest parts of your brains
the most likely and deadly terrorists in america are right wing 'second amendment' militias
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201226
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dafremen
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France: The Nazis have taken over our country and our lives.
USA: You'll need some guns. Here.
Cuba: This dictator Castro is trying to take over our country and our lives.
USA: You'll need some guns. Here.
Afghanistan: These damned Russians are trying to take over our country and our lives.
USA: You'll need some guns AND rocket launchers. Here.
America: Hey, I think these billionaires have taken over our country and our lives.
USA: First thing we'll need to do is get rid of our guns. Here..gimme that.
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221223
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Photophobe
|
Columbine High School
Heritage High School
Deming Middle School
Fort Gibson Middle School
Buell Elementary School
Lake Worth Middle School
University of Arkansas
Junipero Serra High School
Santana High School
Bishop Neumann High School
Pacific Lutheran University
Granite Hills High School
Lew Wallace High School
Martin Luther King, Jr High School
Appalachian School of Law
Washington High School
Conception Abbey
Benjamin Tasker Middle School
University of Arizona
Lincoln High School
John McDonogh High School
Red Lion Area Junior High School
Case Western Reserve University
Rocori High School
Ballou High School
Randallstown High School
Bowen High School
Red Lake Senior High School
Harlan Community Academy High School
Campbell County High School
Milwee Middle School
Roseburg High School
Pine Middle School
Essex Elementary School
Duquesne University
Platte Canyon High School
Weston High School
West Nickel Mines School
Joplin Memorial Middle School
Henry Foss High School
Compton Centennial High School
Virginia Tech
Success Tech Academy
Miami Carol City Senior High School
Hamilton High School
Louisiana Technical College
Mitchell High School
EO Green Junior High School
Northern Illinois University
Lakota Middle School
Knoxville Central High School
Willoughby South High School
Henry Ford High School
University of Central Arkansas
Dillard High School
Dunbar High School
Hampton University
Harvard College
Larose-Cut Off Middle School
International Studies Academy
Skyline College
Discovery Middle School
University of Alabama
DeKalb School
Deer Creek Middle School
Ohio State University
Mumford High School
University of Texas
Kelly Elementary School
Marinette High School
Aurora Central High School
Millard South High School
Martinsville West Middle School
Worthing High School
Millard South High School
Highlands Intermediate School
Cape Fear High School
Chardon High School
Episcopal School of Jacksonville
Oikos University
Hamilton High School
Perry Hall School
Normal Community High School
University of South Alabama
Banner Academy South
University of Southern California
Sandy Hook Elementary School
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School
Taft Union High School
Osborn High School
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts
Hazard Community and Technical College
Chicago State University
Lone Star College-North
Cesar Chavez High School
Price Middle School
University of Central Florida
New River Community College
Grambling State University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School
Ronald E McNair Discovery Academy
North Panola High School
Carver High School
Agape Christian Academy
Sparks Middle School
North Carolina A&T State University
Stephenson High School
Brashear High School
West Orange High School
Arapahoe High School
Edison High School
Liberty Technology Magnet High School
Hillhouse High School
Berrendo Middle School
Purdue University
South Carolina State University
Los Angeles Valley College
Charles F Brush High School
University of Southern California
Georgia Regents University
Academy of Knowledge Preschool
Benjamin Banneker High School
D H Conley High School
East English Village Preparatory Academy
Paine College
Georgia Gwinnett College
John F Kennedy High School
Seattle Pacific University
Reynolds High School
Indiana State University
Albemarle High School
Fern Creek Traditional High School
Langston Hughes High School
Marysville Pilchuck High School
Florida State University
Miami Carol City High School
Rogers State University
Rosemary Anderson High School
Wisconsin Lutheran High School
Frederick High School
Tenaya Middle School
Bethune-Cookman University
Pershing Elementary School
Wayne Community College
JB Martin Middle School
Southwestern Classical Academy
Savannah State University
Harrisburg High School
Umpqua Community College
Northern Arizona University
Texas Southern University
Tennessee State University
Winston-Salem State University
Mojave High School
Lawrence Central High School
Franklin High School
Muskegon Heights High School
Independence High School
Madison High School
Antigo High School
University of California-Los Angeles
Jeremiah Burke High School
Alpine High School
Townville Elementary School
Vigor High School
Linden McKinley STEM Academy
June Jordan High School for Equity
Union Middle School
Mueller Park Junior High School
West Liberty-Salem High School
University of Washington
King City High School
North Park Elementary School
North Lake College
Freeman High School
Mattoon High School
Rancho Tehama Elementary School
Aztec High School
Wake Forest University
Italy High School
NET Charter High School
Marshall County High School
Sal Castro Middle School
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary SchoolThurston High School
Columbine High School
Heritage High School
Deming Middle School
Fort Gibson Middle School
Buell Elementary School
Lake Worth Middle School
University of Arkansas
Junipero Serra High School
Santana High School
Bishop Neumann High School
Pacific Lutheran University
Granite Hills High School
Lew Wallace High School
Martin Luther King, Jr High School
Appalachian School of Law
Washington High School
Conception Abbey
Benjamin Tasker Middle School
University of Arizona
Lincoln High School
John McDonogh High School
Red Lion Area Junior High School
Case Western Reserve University
Rocori High School
Ballou High School
Randallstown High School
Bowen High School
Red Lake Senior High School
Harlan Community Academy High School
Campbell County High School
Milwee Middle School
Roseburg High School
Pine Middle School
Essex Elementary School
Duquesne University
Platte Canyon High School
Weston High School
West Nickel Mines School
Joplin Memorial Middle School
Henry Foss High School
Compton Centennial High School
Virginia Tech
Success Tech Academy
Miami Carol City Senior High School
Hamilton High School
Louisiana Technical College
Mitchell High School
EO Green Junior High School
Northern Illinois University
Lakota Middle School
Knoxville Central High School
Willoughby South High School
Henry Ford High School
University of Central Arkansas
Dillard High School
Dunbar High School
Hampton University
Harvard College
Larose-Cut Off Middle School
International Studies Academy
Skyline College
Discovery Middle School
University of Alabama
DeKalb School
Deer Creek Middle School
Ohio State University
Mumford High School
University of Texas
Kelly Elementary School
Marinette High School
Aurora Central High School
Millard South High School
Martinsville West Middle School
Worthing High School
Millard South High School
Highlands Intermediate School
Cape Fear High School
Chardon High School
Episcopal School of Jacksonville
Oikos University
Hamilton High School
Perry Hall School
Normal Community High School
University of South Alabama
Banner Academy South
University of Southern California
Sandy Hook Elementary School
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School
Taft Union High School
Osborn High School
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts
Hazard Community and Technical College
Chicago State University
Lone Star College-North
Cesar Chavez High School
Price Middle School
University of Central Florida
New River Community College
Grambling State University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School
Ronald E McNair Discovery Academy
North Panola High School
Carver High School
Agape Christian Academy
Sparks Middle School
North Carolina A&T State University
Stephenson High School
Brashear High School
West Orange High School
Arapahoe High School
Edison High School
Liberty Technology Magnet High School
Hillhouse High School
Berrendo Middle School
Purdue University
South Carolina State University
Los Angeles Valley College
Charles F Brush High School
University of Southern California
Georgia Regents University
Academy of Knowledge Preschool
Benjamin Banneker High School
D H Conley High School
East English Village Preparatory Academy
Paine College
Georgia Gwinnett College
John F Kennedy High School
Seattle Pacific University
Reynolds High School
Indiana State University
Albemarle High School
Fern Creek Traditional High School
Langston Hughes High School
Marysville Pilchuck High School
Florida State University
Miami Carol City High School
Rogers State University
Rosemary Anderson High School
Wisconsin Lutheran High School
Frederick High School
Tenaya Middle School
Bethune-Cookman University
Pershing Elementary School
Wayne Community College
JB Martin Middle School
Southwestern Classical Academy
Savannah State University
Harrisburg High School
Umpqua Community College
Northern Arizona University
Texas Southern University
Tennessee State University
Winston-Salem State University
Mojave High School
Lawrence Central High School
Franklin High School
Muskegon Heights High School
Independence High School
Madison High School
Antigo High School
University of California-Los Angeles
Jeremiah Burke High School
Alpine High School
Townville Elementary School
Vigor High School
Linden McKinley STEM Academy
June Jordan High School for Equity
Union Middle School
Mueller Park Junior High School
West Liberty-Salem High School
University of Washington
King City High School
North Park Elementary School
North Lake College
Freeman High School
Mattoon High School
Rancho Tehama Elementary School
Aztec High School
Wake Forest University
Italy High School
NET Charter High School
Marshall County High School
Sal Castro Middle School
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Bridgewater University
Robb Elementary School
Michigan State University
Covenant Christian School
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230409
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... |
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dafremen
|
Start blaming it on mental health issues, not guns. Start blaming it on those who funded wars, bank bailouts, corporate retooling in other countries and police militarization, but defunded public mental health services and robbed the Social Security Trust Fund to the point where its fighting lost battle against inflation.
Maybe stop telling young people that they are ready to make adult decisions? (I Carly, High School Drama anyone?) They have been dumbed down, domesticated and robbed of all but the experiences that might harden their hearts. Compared to the 19th century, we're still toddlers at 20. Who did that? Blame them. Take THEIR power away.
Maybe start blaming it on a society that insists upon conditioning and economically manipulating its people into slavery, instead of empowering them? There is no way in hell that a society of empowered individuals would engage in this madness.
Start blaming it on the marketing geniuses who figured out that turning us back into impulsive and urge-driven animals would increase profits.
Start blaming 100 years of insisting upon our right to be lazy, uncivilized, bickering slobs when it comes to maintaining our human decency and sense of social cohesion. To much "I want this" and not enough "how can I help you?".
Start blaming the education system once in awhile, regardless of its sacred status. Instead of continuing to mindlessly support the organization that INSISTS you let 23 year olds, fresh out of the beer-swilling days of college, teach children about life by herding them all together in one easy-to-(bomb, gas, bio-terrorize or shoot up)-location.
Or how about blaming the wealthy elites who have shattered society into a thousand little polarized, nit-picking fragments? Is it any SURPRISE that the trans individual took out some people at a Christian school? Which group invented that hatred in either direction? The same people who invented racism, sexism, classism, xenophobia, oppressive morality or any other mythology that gives them permission to oppress or favor one group over the other. The same group that keeps the working classes fractured so as to avoid revolution: our parasitic masters.
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230409
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